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 Post subject: Narc question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:57 am 
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Private First Class
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If my Narc Pod attaches does that mean, I no longer have to roll to see if I it. I only roll to see how many missiles hit?


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Village Drunk
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Roll to-hits normally, add +2 to the 2d6 roll on the missile chart.

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 pm 
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If to hit rolls must still be rolled, what is the advantage over the Artemis IV?


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:53 am 
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Major General
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Location: Keene, NH
Musketeer513-2 wrote:
If to hit rolls must still be rolled, what is the advantage over the Artemis IV?

+2 instead of +1, and you only need to swap the ammo on the launch vehicles, not find an extra ton on every unit for each launcher.

NARC can seem like a pretty hefty investment, but if you've got a heavy lance of missile carriers sitting back at range like they should be, being able to just swap in an ammo type and give one of your scouts a NARC unit is a lot simpler.

What's easier? Refitting 4 catapults in your fire support lance with 8 Artemis systems reducing either their ammo or fallback weapons, or adding a Raven to your scout lance and buying some fancy ammo for the Cats?

Remember, you need a dedicates Artemis system for EVERY launcher you want to get the bonus and it's only good for that ONE unit's ONE launcher.

You only need one NARC beacon for your entire lance/company/battalion/regiment to share. Remember, NARC gives the bonus to ALL friendly units on the struck target until end of play if they have the right ammo type without having to modify those other 'Mechs!

... and if memory serves, NARC also applies its bonus for indirect fire; Artemis being point and shoot doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:21 pm 
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deathshadow wrote:
Musketeer513-2 wrote:
If to hit rolls must still be rolled, what is the advantage over the Artemis IV?

+2 instead of +1, and you only need to swap the ammo on the launch vehicles, not find an extra ton on every unit for each launcher.

NARC can seem like a pretty hefty investment, but if you've got a heavy lance of missile carriers sitting back at range like they should be, being able to just swap in an ammo type and give one of your scouts a NARC unit is a lot simpler.

What's easier? Refitting 4 catapults in your fire support lance with 8 Artemis systems reducing either their ammo or fallback weapons, or adding a Raven to your scout lance and buying some fancy ammo for the Cats?

Remember, you need a dedicates Artemis system for EVERY launcher you want to get the bonus and it's only good for that ONE unit's ONE launcher.

You only need one NARC beacon for your entire lance/company/battalion/regiment to share. Remember, NARC gives the bonus to ALL friendly units on the struck target until end of play if they have the right ammo type without having to modify those other 'Mechs!

... and if memory serves, NARC also applies its bonus for indirect fire; Artemis being point and shoot doesn't.


Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:49 am 
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Village Drunk
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Location: Worcester, MA
Artemis IV is also +2 on the missile chart, but the rest is spot on.

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Warrant Officer
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
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I think Narc guided missiles can be vectored indirectly, but hostile ECM(s) effect radius(radii) counters Narc guidance, and I don't think (but I'm not sure about this) that Artemis IV or V guided missiles can't be vectored indirectly, so that's another advantage that Narc presumeably has over Artemis IV or V.

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:36 am 
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Village Drunk
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Location: Worcester, MA
Narc and Artemis IV can't be fired indirectly.

ECM blocks both Narc and Artemis IV

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Warrant Officer
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Location: Roy, WA. USA
Afternoon PDT,

All quoted source material is a copy and paste from purchased electronic copies of the rule books.

chihawk wrote:
Narc and Artemis IV can't be fired indirectly.


"ARTEMIS IV FCS TW p. 130
LRM Indirect Fire: The Artemis system has no effect on LRM missiles fired indirectly."

"ARTEMIS V FCS TO pp. 283
Game Rules: Missile launchers using a functional Artemis V system apply a –1 to-hit modifier to the attack roll, and add +3 to the Cluster Hits Table (to a maximum modified result of 12). Aerospace units using Artemis V-enhanced launchers receive the same to-hit modifier only if all the launchers in a firing bay employ Artemis V, but determine the standard Attack Value as equal to a roll result of 10 on the appropriate-sized launcher on the Cluster Hits Table, delivered per the standard rules (as a standard-scale hit, in strictly aerospace combat, as with other missile systems, or as Clusters appropriate to the launcher type and size, when fired against ground units). Appropriate Point Defense rules may affect this damage value as normal. In all other respects, treat as Artemis IV (page 130, TW and pages 206-207, TM).

LRM Indirect Fire TW p. 130: The Artemis system has no effect on LRM missiles fired indirectly."

"NARC MISSILE BEACON TW pp. 138-139
Indirect LRM Fire TW p. 139 : Once a Narc pod is attached to a target, all Narc-equipped missiles may be fired indirectly at that target without a spotter; all other standard modifiers for Indirect LRM fire apply (see p. 111). In addition, if used in this manner, the Narc-equipped missiles lose their +2 modifier to the roll result on the Cluster Hits Table."

Based on the information provided you appear to be correct that Artemis IV FCS and Artemis V FCSor munitions equipped to use the FCS cannot be fired indirectly. Also based on the information above the Narc munition used to attach the beacon cannot be fired indirectly.

However, targets with attached Narc beacons can be hit by Narc equipped munitions can be hit by Indirect LRM fire.

Quote:
ECM blocks both Narc and Artemis IV


"Narc ECM TW p. 139: Narc-guided missiles function like conventional missiles if the narc pod they are homing in on is within the “bubble” of an active enemy ECM suite; they do not receive the +2 modifier when rolling on the Cluster Hits Table (See ECM Suite, p. 134)."

"ECM TW p. 134:
Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus."

"Narc Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on an attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that system if the pods themselves lie within an ECM “bubble.” The Narc launcher itself (standard and iNarc) is not affected by ECM."

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Warrant Officer
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
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Good CDT morning Tom,
Thank you for posting those clarifications. I had presumed that I had incorrectly read Narc missiles indirect vectoring rules when at first no person(s) had corrected chihawk's comment that Narc missiles couldn't be vectored indirectly. Glad to know that I sort of read those rules correctly (I forgot that the Narc +2 modifier doesn't apply when Narc missiles are vectored indirectly towards a Narc pod).

How do you feel about an optional rule allowing all Narc missiles going towards a Narc pod to hit the location or person said Narc pod is attached to? A good way to counter that is with ECM and also to allow an AMS or Laser AMS to use only one shot to explode a Narc missile to simultaneously explode all other Narc missiles that are flying to said location or person (theoretically, that Narc missile explosion, of that Narc missile that exploded from that AMS or Laser AMS shot, would be big enough to explode those other Narc missiles that are closely next to that missile explosion and that said Narc missiles are going towards said Narc pod). Or perhaps that rules should be obligatory unless a Narc Pod functions like a sensor to gather target's shape and size?

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Warrant Officer
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:45 pm
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Location: Roy, WA. USA
Hello Alayne Leung,

Alayne Leung wrote:
How do you feel about an optional rule allowing all Narc missiles going towards a Narc pod to hit the location or person said Narc pod is attached to?


"NARC MISSILE BEACON TW pp. 138-139
If a Narc missile beacon attack hits, the Narc pod is attached to the target unit; the target’s player should still roll a hit location to determine exactly where the pod attaches. If that location is destroyed during any subsequent turn, the pod is also destroyed and its effects are lost during the end of the phase in which the location was destroyed."

The beacon would be destroyed which defeats the purpose of using the NARC beacon. When rolling for location of a hit there is a chance that one of the hits takes out the pod.

"NARC MISSILE BEACON TW p. 139
Infantry: A Narc missile beacon cannot be used to attack infantry."

A single person I feel falls into the category of infantry which means one can not attach a pod to an individual.

My understanding is that NARC equipped missiles follow the standard rules where a target equipped with an Anti-Missile System can attempt to knock them out of the air before taking any damage.

Based on the information available I do not think the suggested optional rule is needed.

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Tom R (aka snrdg101206)


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Antisocial General
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:35 am
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Location: MLC, Lyran Alliance.
Things to me that have always limited narcs:

#1 Narcs are very short ranged weapons, so you basically need a specialized spotter unit to get up close and personal to tag enemy units, who aren't going to just sit passively and let you do that. I've designed a few durable narc spotters for that task, including a Wolverine variant, a Hellion Omni variant, and a zippy hovercraft, all of which are posted around here somewhere.

#2 Narcs are ammo based weapons with a hideously limited number of shots. Because of that, I've often debated whether or not narcs should have been a special ammo type for LRM/SRM launchers instead of a completely separate weapon. Fire off a volley of narc missiles, then if they hit, follow up with the stuff that goes BOOM.

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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Warrant Officer
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
Posts: 99
Hi Tom,

I meant, how do you feel about amending the Narc pod rules to provide an optional rule that allows all Narc missiles going towards a Narc pod to hit the location said Narc pod is attached to as an option for any player(s) that want(s) to do just that? Should they be allowed to or not? Why or why not?

I meant theoretically, you could probably launch a Narc pod to get stuck on a Battle Armor Trooper; you'd have to roll for a Battle Armor Trooper to be hit unless she or he was not with any other Battle Armor Troopers like in a Squad or Point.

Shades of Grey,

You might use drone(s) to launch Narc pod(s).

Narc guided missiles are, according to Total Warfare, SRM(s) or LRM(s) that have Narc guidance system simply added to said SRM(s) and said (LRMs). I'm sure that the current Total Warfare rules want to maintain game balance by allowing missiles, that have Narc guidance systems added, to be launched without having to go to a Narc pod if there isn't a Narc pod xor if a character wants to launch such missiles to another target that might not have a Narc pod. Theoretically, you could make missiles that are exclusively guided by Narc pods.

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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 Post subject: Re: Narc question
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:35 am 
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Warrant Officer
Warrant Officer

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:45 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Roy, WA. USA
Hello Alayne Leung,

The reason you attach a NARC beacon on a target is to maximize the number of missiles that hit from friendly forces. Having the friendly forces purposely target the homing pod means that once it is destroyed you no longer have anything to bring in more missiles. However, if the players want to do it they can, but I am not a fan.



Alayne Leung wrote:
Hi Tom,
I meant theoretically, you could probably launch a Narc pod to get stuck on a Battle Armor Trooper; you'd have to roll for a Battle Armor Trooper to be hit unless she or he was not with any other Battle Armor Troopers like in a Squad or Point.


TW p. 139 Infantry: A Narc missile beacon cannot be used to attack infantry.

TM p. 13 Battle Armor
Battle armored infantrymen are a class unto themselves.

Based on the two items above a Narc missile beacon cannot be attacked to battle armor.

_________________
Tom R (aka snrdg101206)


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