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Exploding Engines
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Author:  Highland Ranger [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Do Mech engines explode and if so how big a bang do they cause ?

I'm not just after the rule book version, but any house rules as well.
Author:  Gauntlet [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, They do explode. (Or they can if you want to use Level 3). I don't know if the Revised Master Rules or the MaxTech book has them in it, it's been a while since I played, but I do know that the Tactical Handbook has it.

I believe it goes something like this ::just got of work and is too tired to stumble downstairs for the book::

If all center torso internal structure is destroyed in one round (from one hit) then there's a chance the reactor goes (I believe it's an 8+). I also think that if the engine sufferes 3 critical hits it has a chance to go (same as above). And, the 'Warrior himself can do an auto-destruct. I believe it's declared at the beginning of the turn, then during the Heat Phase...there's an earth shattering kaboom!.

As for the distance...I believe it's the engine rating divided by like 25 or 10 and the blast goes out in a radius of three hexes. Loosing 10 points per hex out. My friends and i didn't think that something like that should just stop so we had it keep loosing 10 till there was no damage.

If you want, and if no body beats me to it, I can post that section from the book here for ya....
Author:  MacAttack [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
No they don't.

That is only in cheep holo-novels and the "Imortal Warrior" holovid series.

There was a set of rules (optional) in the Tactical handbook (I think it was engine rating as damage to everything in the same hex, then half the damage per hex beyond - or something like that.

Where it go messy was in the Solaris Arena maps that FASA produced. The biger scale tened to see a 'Mech going down causing a chain reaction that would destroy the arena, the audiance and anybody in the car park outside.

Next you'll want to be able to use jumpjets to blow the head off assault 'Mechs... :eyes:
Author:  MacAttack [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Argh - somebody else go there first!

Yes - I think their version is closer.

Been a long time since I used that rule.
Author:  Highland Ranger [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, but only if I am prone . :grin:
Author:  Gauntlet [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok ok ok..I'm not THAT sleepy...

No, REAL fusion engines probably wouldn't explode. I'm not a physicst or anything like that. I'ld think there'ld be too many safty features and the like...

However, this is a Sci-fi game...and, some people like to have things explode when massive amounts of damage is being done. I happen to agree that it does look neat and have a dramatic effect when, in the middle of a fight, you round on that mech that's been pounded during the entire game, slip a gauss round through, and blow a large gaping whole in the center toros where the engine was. There's an energy spike, and then a small crater and a sheet of glass where the opponent once stood.

Granted, if you don't like it...don't use it..no biggie...

PS: Sorry if this sounds B****y, wasn't meant to.
Author:  Major Tom [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
We use engine explosions, but only if all 3 engine criticals are sustained during the same round, and in addition a roll of 8+ is made. We use the engine rating/10 in the hex it occupies, rating/25 for one hex surrounding the point of detonation, and rating/50 for one hex beyond THAT. All damage is split in 5 point increments and rolled randomly based on facing. Needless to say, not many folks carry ammo in the center torso. :wink:
Author:  Highland Ranger [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 11:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I killed a Bombadier that way once.

"Killed him, got the ammo "

"Don't they have CASE " from another table.

"Not in the Center Torso they don't and thats were the AMS ammo is " was my enthusiastic reply.

two turns and location of snakes eyes :grin:
Author:  MacAttack [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 12:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Would make no difference.

While CASE stops ammo from taking the whole 'Mech out, it still results in the destruction of the torso it is located in (for IS - Clans are different).

When the left of right torso goes, you take three hits to your XL engine - your toast.

Which is why CASE is pointless in IS units with XL engines - unless you are attached to the 'MechWarrior or want more salvage in your campaign...

:grin:
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
It destroys the Clammers' torso too...they just have less engine crits on the sides....

As for CASE...I like them...of course...All my game play is RPG related...so....hehehe

:grin:
Author:  MacAttack [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well...Yes...But it's the "instant death" aspect of IS XL Engines that I am less than enthusiastic about. :smile:
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's why you use XL to mount more weapons to kill them faster or faster engines so you don't get hit as much....

XL in Atlas kinda sucks though....:grin:
Author:  MacAttack [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not saying don't use them <i>ever</i>,

Just that with lots of the bigger units you are better off with Endo Steel to free up tonnage.

There are always exception though...
Author:  Steiner Loyalist [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:27 pm ]
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I always liked the idea, for color if nothing more. My players enjoy watching mechs make big booms.
Author:  JackMc [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Reactors will not explode like they do in the novels. I researched this once for a rpg I am writing. Essentially the fusion process ends about the same time as the containments bottle/fields fail, so no /fusion/ explosions and no radiation spikes. However; when the bottle collapses, you are left with an amount of ultra hot plasma which with cause a thermal shock-type explosion when it comes into contact with anything. That anything will typically be the reactor walls which would be compsoed of a superconducting material. The plasma would probably vaporize the wall on contact, breaking the conduction loop. This is goign to result in a truly massive electrical discharge. If you are not fortunate enough to have room-tempature superconductors, you are also going to have a truely impressive conventional explosion as the super-hot plasma comes into contact with the cryonic bath that the superconductors are kept in.

If I were doing the write up, I say that any time the engine took a third hit, the system is going to attempt to scram itself to prevent the above scenario from happening. If a fourth engine hit were to happen in the next 2-3 turns after scramming, I'd roll to see if the reactor had time to cool the plasma before the bottle failed. Call it a 50/50 chancem changign to 75% on an iceworld and 25% on a ultrahot world. In vacumn, I'd say that there is no chance of explosion as the reactor could eject the plasma with little consequence. As for self-destructing a reactor, it shouldn't be that easy. There are very few military vehicles designed to self destruct and there will be a gajillion safety interlocks to prevent damage to the control circutry causing it. If anything, ripping boards away (ala Liao/Leare) should trigger a scram for safety reasons.

Damage effects: Use the original range rule given in the tactical handbook, but instead of doing damage, this area is under the effects of an Angel-level ECM field the next turn to model the EMP generated by the superconduction loop shorting.

Damage to the exploding mech should be around 50 points to torso location that took the fatal hit. In addition, any ammo in non-CASE torso locations will suffer sympathetic detonations from the intense pressure caused by the plasma explosion.

Units out to 3 hexes should take a 5 point hit to model spraying plasma and shrapnel. Units in the hexes surrounding the exploding mech should also take one 10 point hit to a location facing the exploding mech. This is to represent being struck by the discharge as the superconducting loop blows.

All things being equal, I'd much rather be in an ICE mech. sure you got all that diesel, but it's not all that explosive and it can be vented with CASE-equipped fuel tanks. There's not much you can do about a fusion reactor explosion other than maybe CASE'ing every location the engine is in, even then you're still goign to have that nasty electrical discharge.

-Jack
Author:  Drake Draconis [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
In games outside of role-playing we usually use all the different engine explosin rules at once. In campaigns and role-playing I prefer not to use them, but the crazy-cooters I'm running a campaign for right now wanted to use them, so we are. Many of their characters have not survived very long as a result, but they have gotten good at avoiding those situations, and I think are better players for it now. I will say this, it does make for some spectacular endings to some of the fights, but they pay for it when there's no salvage after the battle...hehe. In one game we had one mech go up ,which set off another engine explosion in a different mech, which anihilated the one who shot the first. We affectionately refer to mechs whose engines go critical as having developed "smoking hole syndrome". This refers to the level 1 crated left after one of these things explode. By the way, the rules from THB state that the mech and all other units in the hex it occupies are destroyed instantly, and that the damage in the surround daisies are engine rating divided by x for fist, y for second, and z for third. Just can't remember what x,y,and z are.
Author:  Discord [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
We use the Max Tech rules in my campaign. We did use the Tactical HB before that though. We learned REAL quick not to stand next to certain peoples target. Collateral damage ain't no good when it take out one of your mechs. Koto.....BOOM! :smile:
Author:  Khanjohn [ Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
We use the engine rule. It does state it goes out to three hexes but the damage is substantially less for each hex out. If your cockpit is set to auto eject then we allow them to get away but if you don't well some have died and some have made it.
Author:  Highland Ranger [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 2:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the replies every one.

We do use engine explosion rules in our campaign. I was just wondering if they were commonly used (obviously yes) and if damage was on par with our rules used.

Last battle I played, I hit a Grand Dragon with 4 Arrow IV missiles. Then came the taunt, you didn't kill him. So I hit him with an Ultra AC/20 and hit both shots.

With resulting missing torso I rolled for an engine explosion (nuke in our campaign). Successfully nuked.

360pts damage later to the Highlander IIc right next door and it's engine also exploded. After resolving both explosions out to 3 hexes each, I also took down 2 Trebuchets and a Centurion.

Scrap 1 clan garrison star. All with just my first mech firing. Not much salvage though ,which was anoying.
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 5:12 am ]
Post subject: 
oh wow.....BTW...I like the idea above about the plasma flying and not the whole engine going critical...though I'd say maybe double the damage to other guys in the area...just an idea though....:grin:
Author:  JackMc [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
On 2001-10-17 02:12, Medron Pryde wrote:
oh wow.....BTW...I like the idea above about the plasma flying and not the whole engine going critical...though I'd say maybe double the damage to other guys in the area...just an idea though....:grin:
A better way to handle it might be to say 5 points of damage(shrapnel) and treat every hex, and unit, within the 3 hexes radius as having been hit with an inferno round(plasma).

It's funny, I was disappointed to learn that a fusion reactor doesn't go boom like it does in sci-fi. In my setting, the human starships are designed to withstand a 50 megaton explosion at 150 yards. However, their power systems aren't anywhere up to snuff when it comes to handling the superconduction loop shorting on a 5 Terawatt reactor. You figure that there are ten such reactors in a frigate and you realize the resulting daisy-chain would be far nastier than any external nuke hit.

-Jack
Author:  Haggis Muncher [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 11:16 am ]
Post subject: 
You all have a serious problem if you think the technology in battletech has anything to do with reality.

Don't get me wrong I'm a major fan of the game.

Highland Ranger why didn't you tell them all about the previous game, where a clanner turned his mech into a very expensive hand grenade, whilst standing between two of your Thugs.
Author:  MacAttack [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
On 2001-10-17 08:16, Haggis Muncher wrote:
You all have a serious problem if you think the technology in battletech has anything to do with reality.
Shhh!

You'er not supposed to point that out! It will just make them unhappy...


:smile:
Author:  Highland Ranger [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Highland Ranger why didn't you tell them all about the previous game, where a clanner turned his mech into a very expensive hand grenade, whilst standing between two of your Thugs.
Because Mr GM I like to focus on the positive side of the game, from my point of view anyway. :grin:
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 1:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
A Clanner Hand Grenade?

Anything like the "Holy Hand Grenade"?

:grin:

*Medron walks away mumbling "Bless this thy Holy Hand Grenade that it might smite thine enemies." hehehe*
Author:  Lord Crunch [ Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
just remember good old natsha kerensky :smile:
Author:  Teemo [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
On 2001-10-17 10:43, Medron Pryde wrote:
A Clanner Hand Grenade?

Anything like the "Holy Hand Grenade"?

:grin:

*Medron walks away mumbling "Bless this thy Holy Hand Grenade that it might smite thine enemies." hehehe*
*Teemo wonders if Medron has noticed Teemo's sig* :roll:

Teemo
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not two or four?

Ah man...I was getting all ready to throw it on the five count!

:grin:
Author:  MacAttack [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Holy exploding engines!

You don't mean?????
Author:  Medron Pryde [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Holy Exploding Grenades Batman!

:grin:
Author:  Major Tom [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
360pts damage later to the Highlander IIc right next door and it's engine also exploded. After resolving both explosions out to 3 hexes each, I also took down 2 Trebuchets and a Centurion.
Just LOVE those chain reactions! :grin:
Author:  Rick Raisley [ Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that /everyone's/ favorite BattleTech stories always seem to involve exploding engines, so I, like a lot of others, think they should be included. Maybe not quite as easy as the THB was, but we used a modification of the MaxTech rules, where number of engine crits damaged during that turn determined if the engine exploded.
Author:  Klingon8 [ Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
On 2001-10-17 08:16, Haggis Muncher wrote:
You all have a serious problem if you think the technology in battletech has anything to do with reality.
Don't worry, you just need a engine hoist to suspend your disbelief.
Author:  Alayne Leung [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Exploding Engines (an utterly unbalanced rule)
Hey Highland Ranger, Tactical Operations has the most recent engine explosions rules. Want to use a tactic that's utterly unbalancing get rid of a fleet of WarShips in the same hex? Just put a 10 ton 'Mech with a fusion engine inside of a fast thrust evasively moving DropShuttle (use Strategic Operations rules for thrust evasively moving) and send it into the hex that that fleet is in and have that 'Mech be ready to explode its engine because Tactical Operations specifically says that any unit in the same hex as a 'Mech that's engine is exploding is destroyed, so that fleet destroyed. Way more unbalanced and way more crazier than a Crazy Strafey's strafing attack. :crazy: :roll: That is beyond corrupt. That's just :devil:
Author:  Rick Raisley [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Exploding Engines (an utterly unbalanced rule)
Quote:
Hey Highland Ranger, Tactical Operations has ...
Do you really think Highland Ranger is looking for an answer to a post from 16 years ago?? Please don't resurrect really old posts.
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