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Reading between the lines of all the posts on the FASA/ Gondu feud over the years, there comes a subtext of "it might not hold up in court … but we aren't willing to pay our lawyer to find out."

Well al'right: They started this one, and it's not us they're pointed at! In fact, it's someone much bigger.

So: There will be no timetable for this to sort out. We may not like the outcome. It may not even turn out anywhere near as decisive as I'm hoping, good or bad.

But things are on the move …

…

It's worth pointing out we may have "funded" this with that one Kickstarter from a few months ago. On of the parallel results could be we don't get them items, regardless of the outcome of the main event.

We won't know if we made a mistake 'till it's all over; But if Kickstarter welches, and then Randall explodes with joy, will it be so bad?

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

strange that it would come up now when the original Jetfire was made so long ago

My initial thought was that when the Jetfire toy came out, they actually had permission to make it. Of course, they redid the character as Skyfire and redid the art for legal reasons( ). On top of that, my understanding is that the episodes with Skyfire where verboten in Japan until long after the series ended.

(At least that's what I read years ago; pity I never bothered keeping the links. )

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-texas.gif[/img]

Was "Jetfire" really adjusted for legal reasons, or was the art for that show just that sloppy?

(Ye Gods: Teh Engrish used in ANN's forums. )

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

What the hell? Didn't they learn from their last set of lawsuits that they didn't have any legal ground to stand on? Didn't the Japanese court toss out their case? What is HG's problem really?

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Yes to both. Though the former holds true. I've lost the link to the series bible(I believe parts of it where available if you where (un)lucky enough to get the Rhino version of The Transformers seasons 1-4), but it was mentioned that Skyfire was to be used sparingly due to legal reasons.

Wait for it...I knew if I dug around enough I'd find it.

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-texas.gif[/img]

Could all of this have something to do with the rumored live action Robotech movie that is being bounced around on all of the FB pages that deal with Sci-fi and the other webpages/forums out there?

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

It might. I really can't say; I've been way out of the loop on that one.

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-texas.gif[/img]

Since Pacific Rim came out there has been new rumors about the Robotech movie from DeCaprio to Michael Keaton playing roles in it.

Jetfire/Skyfire yeah the comic book by Marvel made the name change and then the art change before the cartoon did.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Actually, the Marvel comics kept the name Jetfire, but the aft was similar to that used in the cartoon. Causing much confusion about whether his name is Jetfire of Skyfire, and many hijinks have followed in years since.

As for this...wow...

Suing Hasbro for modding a toy Hasbro owns by painting it to resemble a character they have rights to.

That takes...something...I hope Hasbro crushes them...

http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2013- ... nygold.png

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Hopefully we'll see Harmony Gold's greatest moment in history as Darth Hasbro accepts Harmony Gold's apology:

http://youtu.be/Iwio208q3jY

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-ohio.gif[/img]

HG seems to think they are the only source of robot anime out there...

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

More like they think they can corner the market …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

Hasbro will probably bankrupt Harmony Gold, even if the case goes against them.

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-ohio.gif[/img]

I want to say that might be the best result, but since they thought to copyright stuff in the US that wasn't theirs to copyright, I suspect these trolls have a poison pill lined up for that contingency. And since large tracts of their tactics seem to involve "you got'a pay your lawyer in order to prove anything other then what we tell you," I'd bet they have some gambit lined up about how rights revert, or where them US copyrights move should anything happen to (D)HG.

These so'n'soes aren't dumb (to wit: Grabbing copyright) …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

Full disclosure: I have in the past (and currently am right now) doing some work for Hasbro, although none of it related in any way to any of the properties mentioned in the suit.

That being said...if they so choose to Hasbro will crush Harmony Gold.

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[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

I hope they do. IT makes no sense for HG to go after them like this.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

My guess is HG may just be looking for some money in a settlement.

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[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

Isn't that Patent Troll 101? Throw a smoke grenade, claim the next one will be thermite, but you'll just leave, right quick, for the low, low price of ~10% what it would cost to have (the first) judge give it the once over? They might even promise to not come back for that money … Maybe …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

That's the way of many copyright/trademark holders...

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[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

Perhaps, but there's bluffing, and there's bluffing …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

and in poker there is a semi-bluff

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

If Hasbro chooses to go after HG I doubt they will be bluffing.

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-ohio.gif[/img]

The question I have is who is licensed to do what. That's kinda what is missing from the report here (not to mention all the legalisms between the original owners of the Macross IP).

While I am not a fan of HG as a company (What have they really done with the Robotech universe? Battlecry not withstanding), I do understand their desire to protect their license from misuse.

Still... spitting in the face of the company that has helped make them money comes across as a bit trite.

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Once more unto the breach.

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]

Well, in this case, Hasbro recolored one of their old Gi Joe toys in the colors of Jetfire, another of their old toys. Those colors have been used on an entire line of Jetfires on different molds over the years because Hasbro wants to keep the name under trademark. I own many of them.

This is simply them using that same paint scheme again, this time on a non-transforming Gi Joe toy based on the F-14.

Which of course is what the original veritech was based on, and that model is what the original Jetfire was made with.

Harmony Gold seems to be suggesting with this lawsuit that Hasbro doesn't have the right to use a particular character's color scheme anymore, because it was first used on a toy that is now considered to be under their control in America. That seems like really shaky ground to me...

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Lucky you... Hard to find one of them that isn't being gouged on E-bay.
I can think of better ways to waste my time... or a lawyers.
I agree. Additionally, if memory serves me, Hasbro licensed the Transformers from Takara. If Jetfire/Skyfire had an incarnation resembling the F-14 prior to Robotech rolling around, then Harmony Gold can enjoy a glass of shut up and smile.

Dunno. Seems heavy handed on their part. But how is this a surprise to anyone?

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Once more unto the breach.

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]

Pardon?

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

The original Jetfire was a recolored Macross valkyrie, before Robotech came to the States. Harmony Gold now has an exclusive right to marketing that exact toy in the States.

Hasbro has used the Jetfire/Skyfire paint scheme and name on other molds over the years. Just now, they used it on a GI Joe F-14 fighter jet.

Harmony Gold is suing them now.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

O_o I don't think it was recolored, nor do I think your timetable is correct.

Also: If HasBro rolls out an original item in court, with the old dates on the box, what happens?

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

Jetfire was recolored specifically for Hasbro. No Macross or Robotech Valkyrie has ever been constructed using that color pattern. The official terminology is "redeco." There was also a slight rounding of the nose since Hasbro thought the original was too sharp for some reason.

As for timeframe, he is officially part of the 1985 run of Transformers toys, the second major run of characters to reach the stores. I don't know the exact street date. In the cartoon, he first appeared on December 8th of 1984, several months before the Robotech series began to air, so it would make sense that he should be in or near street date at that time.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

As for what happens if Hasbro pulls out an old mint in box Jetfire, I have no idea. I own two of them, though they are not mint in box. I honestly don't know if there ARE any mint in box never opened Jetfires in the world. Harmony Gold has the rights to sell Macross toys outside of Japan. They licensed the rights from one of the three owners of Macross. But Hasbro licensed the rights to sell the design in America through the actual manufacturer of the Valkyrie before Robotech came out.

Jetfire is obviously the same mold, but he is a different character, from a different IP, with a different paint scheme. Hasbro can show that their new paint scheme for their GiJoe-TF crossover is based on that original character.

The issue is that we know from BattleTech's experience, that producing the designs first in America doesn't mean much in court. At the same, Harmony Gold doesn't own the Stinger, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk ideas because they were made with that toy. They were original creations of FASA.

In the same way, the Jetfire character and paint job were created by Hasbro. They belong to Hasbro.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

as I recall it was slight changes like this that lost FASA it's lawsuit over the Mad-Cat Ripoff. [was considered just enough of a change to be 'completely different']

I am no fan of big corps like Hasbro, but anyone curb stomping the Harmony Gold asshats has my quiet support.

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Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Agreed. HG has some major chutzpah picking a fight with Hasbro. Of course patent trolling is about chasing the money. But didn't all this get decided when the Japanese court ruled the company that gave the licenses to HG had no right to do so?

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-navy.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-seabees.gif[/img]

That's the gag, boilerman: They did.

But until someone pays a lawyer, and this lawyer gets a judge to read the Japanese court ruling, Disharmony Gondu can bluff like mad men! Since it's been clear no one DG picks on wants to do that, They Win, and their version of what the ownership is sticks.

Two things, here: "Settling Out of Court" doesn't count as "pay lawyer to get judge to read previous ruling," and can say anything the two can "agree" to (see "bulling").

But more importantly is DG choosing to go to court: It can't be that hard for HasBro, or anybody else, to look up the Japanese court ruling and blow DG into the weeds, so there must be some calculation about HasBro being lazy and just settling every couple of years.

OK: Maybe DG will only do this once …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

Here is something HG may not have considered, what if Hasbro cut a deal with the Japanese side of things, i.e. buys the rights to the products for US distribution, given that Hasbro has a wider auidence and market base then HG has ever had and given that it would given an in-road with the likes of Bandai and other companies it could be a big win for Hasbro.

Other option is Hasbro could try and buy out HG, which may not be the one we see happen but it would end HG, not saying it's the best option but it is one thing and given how slow HG has been with really doing anything new or original with the Robotech property, looking at the stuff Palladium wanted to do mid 90s forward should tell anyone that HG didn't want anything changed too fast, really say a lot about how their business model is lagging behind others and their money issues might be something they are worried about and this is another lawsuit to gain capital.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

All I have to say is, "Breath, Karagin, Breath."

John

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ViperXTC

The first law of battle planning: "No plan survives the first contact intact."

So I should not have roused the village mob with their pitch forks and torches and their demands that Frankenstien Castle be burned to the ground?

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

No, go ahead and raise the rabble. Just take a breath between sentences so they can understand why they are up in the middle of the nite. LOL

John

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ViperXTC

The first law of battle planning: "No plan survives the first contact intact."

And hasn't that been DGs' goal the whole time? "Won't someone come and give us a whole pile of cash?"

It's basically the E-Bay Pricing Delusion: Rare must mean Valuable, so meet my price …

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

Given that Harmony Gold, Palladium and a company called Ninja Division is producing Robotech: Battlecry at the end of the year to bring the series to a tabletop format, I have to wonder if this is an attempt to protect what dis-Harmony tarnished-Gold perceive as their intellectual property.

It could also be an attempt to ride the wave of the Transformers/GI Joe resurgence over the past several years.

Really what it boils down to is:

Harmony Gold really hasn't done anything productive with the license since the Shadow Chronicles, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

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Once more unto the breach.

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]

you guys have heard Hasbro is backing a new online game of transformer being done by Jagex ?