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This is not an offer of a PBEM game, just a brainstorming session so that I can see if my idea truely is too hard to run or not. If you previously have played either Scream of the Jaguar or Operation Tristram I'm asking you not to list the website here on the boards (or via PM for that matter).

I've had some success at running pbem battletech games for the past 12 months and have learned a few tricks that can make the GM's job a little quicker but I'm up against the wall with something I've been thinking of implementing for 18 months... but the logistics of the enterprise make it seem impossible.

A large tactically run (ie you submit movement and fire orders for individual unit) on a strategic scale (ie a huge map with additional offboard resources). I want a game where the players have to think 3 or 4 turns ahead or risk being outflanked or out manuevered. It would include air units and artillery units. I do not want to run it as a Battleforce game - I want it as a CBT game. The part I love is that a) how you deploy of your units is vital and relies HEAVILY on... b) recon Recon RECON!!! Your VTOL's, Light mechs and Aerospace units are SOOOO necessary if you want to be in the right place at the right time and Recon Hunter Killers are vital if you want to limit enemy data!

Normally my games are run 1 turn a week (so its slow) on a one movement phase/1 fire phase per week... and I play double blind (so there will be 2 sets of mapboards.One for each team)

I'm thinking of a base 4x4 map master mapboard. As I use the BME program each map will be 17x17 hexes. Thats the ON board map... I also run an OFFboard map where on hex = 1 mapboard.(I also use the terms Tactical map (an area which includes all the on-board maps and strategic map)

This is to track off board units (there will be none for this game) and MORE importantly and more relevant to tbe game - to track aerospace units... plus I run an upper altitude board - nothing but clouds so that the aerospace units can duke it out without running into ground units. Both these maps are 50x50 in size... allowing for a total battlefield of approximately 25 Km's. The battlefield on which the ground units will fight is approx 2 Km by 2 Km.

The ground combat will happen on the tactical boards and air movement, air combat etc happen either on the stategic boards (for low altitidue) or the High alitidue board. Air units that end movement over a hex on the strategic board that contains ground units can attack the ground units (ie the strategic hex represents a part of the Tactical mapboard)

So we have 16 mapboards (x2 one set for each team) + two 50x50 maps - one for strategic movement at low altitude and one for movement at high altitude (not orbital) Per team...

Thats a LOT of maps!

Plus I want to run 14-15 players PER SIDE

Commander (he only has one Mech + the artillery. 4 tubes of infantry towed arillery - level 3 maxtech rule)
1 (maybe 2) aerospace players (they'd be using modified AT1 rules) either either 4 or 6 fighters
12 players. Each playing 1 mech, 1 tank (and possibly) 1 Infantry/BA unit. (4 of these 'Tanks' would be VTOL AirCav)

You'd have a combined arms battalion with air (which would not be deployed unit turn 3 or 4) and artillery support (artillery units would be on-board/on the Tactical board). The air units would have to duke it out to establish Air Sumpremacy or at least air superiority

I'd want at least another GM - possibly two. One Red team GM, one Blue team GM and one Aerospace GM would be ideal. One of these would act as the Head GM. Unless I was unemployed and of independant means the is NO WAY I could track, maps, and unit status on my own. The head GM (me) would have to handle both the Strategic and Air maps as they are normally too big to be to emailled by the GMs. The GM's would place units on the respective maps, resolve fire orders and update the teams records.

My challenges are...

*Collecting move and fire orders - (Solved) in my current games the unit CO collates them and emails me tthem on a XL/Word doc.

* Maintaining tactical maps (Semi solved) I use Paint and PNG files. There are better progrms out there but these require both me understanding them AND my assistant GM's understanding them. My current process is a little slow but its simple. I save a master map and copy that every turn and place unit graphics on the mapfile anew every turn. Coloured dots are used to represent both mech and torso facing. PNG files are general space friendly on my website. JPEGs are memeory hogs!.

* Maintaining mech sheets (Solved) Its easy enough if you are organised. The HMpro sheets even have an area to track movement heat etc over a number of turms

* Maintaining the site records for units. (Solved but Challenging) I normally use both a unit icon - coloured locations show the damage, and a unit pecifics page (normally per lance) which has all the specific numbers (ie your heat, the number of points or armour/internals remaining, critical damage, ammo etc). (Semi-Solved) This takes a lot of time and is a pain in the butt. It would take some time to 'train' the other GM's. The tough part would be having to keep information current between your unit and your collegue GM's as Turn results would have to list both Attack and counter attack results. I can do it for amall scale games but this is a bit beyond small scale.

* Maintaining player interest (?) I've resolved to make the slowest unit 4/6 - the CO's Mech (and possibily 1-2 tanks). Everything else will be 5/8 or better, with a lot of emphasis on Medium and light units for mech and tanks. Infantry will be either Jump, Motor or hover (I want to go MWDA CBT). Given that the board is 70 hexes long, if you made a sloppy decision in deploying your forces, you may need 6-10 turns of movement (I'll use level 3 sprint rules to assist in rapid movement) to bring your forces into the battle. A reason for giving a player 3 units is to help maintain player interest if a) a unit is too far away to participate and b) if one unit dies you have another. If you get a Stinger for a mech then I'll make sure you get a decent tank/a BA unit to balance things up. The game will also be SLOW... it will be 4- 6 weeks before shooting combat is likely to occur. The first month allow will just be submiting movement orders so the players can deploy their units. Fianlly if players quit the CO or XO could submit orders for the un its but if too many quit then the game would be tough for the CO.

The logistical challenges of running such a game are considerable and a little daunting but I believe it would outrageously fun and 'realistic' in the CBT sense of how large scale battles normally run.

Anyway I need some feedback and suggestions... let me know if you think its feasible, what would help run it AND if there are other challenges that I haven't listed here that may torpedo the game...

_________________
Former Sen. Auditor Capellan Tax Office
Confederation Audit Department (CAD)

Wu zuizhe bu yong pa!

Well, over at the NSS forums, we are working on online/email games in both CBT tactical scale, and Combat Ops large-scale...

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Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Okay... share... what problems are you running into... what makes your job easier (ie specific software, or rules or proceedures) and what advice can you offer about running 30 players, 120+ units over 16 mapboards and aerospace units over a pair of 50x50 maps?

I WANT to do this but I'd like to make sure it is viable before I waste any MORE time on the concept

_________________
Former Sen. Auditor Capellan Tax Office
Confederation Audit Department (CAD)

Wu zuizhe bu yong pa!

With just you as the GM?

Do yourself a favor and don't.

I run a 32 player/ 32 unit game using the rules the folks over at NSS are using (actually, they're using my rules ).

What you are suggesting will be a logistical nightmare.

Save your sanity and tone your game down a ton.

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
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OK, I reread your post, you'll be using other GM's...

My advice stays the same.

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
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Thanks - good advice... which I may actually take...\\You wanna tell me what scale you run and the prob's you have?

_________________
Former Sen. Auditor Capellan Tax Office
Confederation Audit Department (CAD)

Wu zuizhe bu yong pa!

Do yourself a favour...

Set a strict deadline for organisation, and if it's not done by then, abandon it, walk away for awhile, then if you feel up to it, have another shot.

Also, I'd sugget NO AERO! This will make things much easier to run. You can still use it, just make it NPC and fudge the rules a bit so you don't have to keep track...

_________________
Loyalty above all else, except honour!

I think what he means here, is abstract it a bit. I'm thinking, make two charts, one for air-to-air, and one for air to ground. Every 50 tons of AF gets you one roll on one chart (you pick which chart). Air-to-ground chart goes from 0 at the bottom, up to say 3 at the top. Result = number of airstrikes you get, figure 4 bombs/airstrike. Air-to-air chart, dice roll result gets you how many of enemy tons of AF you knock down. Figure the range on that chart is 0 to 50. Also figure every ground unit you designate as AA doesn't get to shoot at ground targets, but every 50 points of damage they do gets you another roll on the air-to-air chart.

Example of air-to-air chart (maybe should be called anti-air chart):

Die roll            # tons knocked out

2                              0
3                              0
4                              0
5                              10
6                              10
7                              20
8                              20
9                              30
10                             30
11                             40
12                             50

adjust chart for how fast you want the AFs to go away.

_________________
That which does not kill me, had better run quickly.

I've run 17 PBeM games and a new issue comes up each time.

In every game but 1 it has been a sort of "every man for himself" and that works the best. Use the rules from the rBMR in every possible case so that everyone knows what they are looking at.

Double blind sounds great. It is more work then you can imagine.

The one lance on lance battle was total chaos on the players end. If you play one turn a week (3 days to move, 3 days to fire, 1 day to resolve combat) there's not enough time for players from around the globe to truly fight as a unit.

And presuming you are still thinking double blind play one turn. Get 2 friends and give them each 12 mechs and use 4 boards. Have them submit moves in random intervals over the three day move period. At the deadline send out all the info you plan to in the manner you plan to (if players will be playing lances, send 3 e-mails to each of your testers [one per lance]). Now wait for fire orders. Now do the fire results.

Once you've done that turn take all thge mechs and put them in range with their weapons.

Now play another turn, starting with a move phase and then a fire phase.

Then look at how much time you've spent.

Now picture doing that EVERY week.

I'm a firm believer in the KISS mentality for these games.

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

O.K. chihawk Question I have for you I am LCO of the Recon lance for the New Star Sentenals Would a chat room be of value for co-ordenating the units with in a lance we are using one now for commanders meetings and it seems to help there.

_________________
Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh
For more from Rush go here: www.rushlimbaugh.com
Still crazy after all these years.
Force of nature : :
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... chigan.gif[/img]

Also, ICQ may be of use, as well.

_________________
That which does not kill me, had better run quickly.

Those all work great if you're all in time zones that are close to each other.

In my past game I had players from every continent except Antarctica. Even if you could get all your team mates on line at the same time you run into problems with language. Many Euros that don't speak English as their primary language might feel intimidated using IM/chat so you won't get the full benefit of their insights.

Oh, and one other issue...most players don't know the rules very well. As a GM you'd have to be prepared to explain even the most basic rules to players.

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

The recon Lance has three US citizens and one Canadian so language should not be a problem.

_________________
Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh
For more from Rush go here: www.rushlimbaugh.com
Still crazy after all these years.
Force of nature : :
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... chigan.gif[/img]

There's a joke there folks, but I ain't gunna say it.

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

We should let Hitman answer this one.

_________________
Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh
For more from Rush go here: www.rushlimbaugh.com
Still crazy after all these years.
Force of nature : :
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... chigan.gif[/img]

I've run 24 players in DB PBEM with me as opfor - what a toughie that was!

I'm currently running 8 vs 5 in DB PBEM at the moment with the US team (all friends) and the Australian team (likewise all friends) working well together - but I've been lucky in my players!

It takes up an hour or two (now at any rate) a night and more if I let it slide a day or two.

I think you are right in that its hard to pull together if you're on different continents and time lines.

One way to pull this off would be as it is now - either all the players or all the players on one team from the same region... otherwise... oooohhh boy.

_________________
Former Sen. Auditor Capellan Tax Office
Confederation Audit Department (CAD)

Wu zuizhe bu yong pa!

Interesting....

_________________
Loyalty above all else, except honour!

We may be able to arrange a game or two... where are you located? I'm in West Sydney

_________________
Former Sen. Auditor Capellan Tax Office
Confederation Audit Department (CAD)

Wu zuizhe bu yong pa!

Holy thread necromancy...12 years.

Someone emailed me the other day looking for my pbem rules, and over the years I've apparently lost them. I know they were posted somewhere so I searched and couldn't find them. I did find this thread where I posted "the folks over at NSS are using" them. My aged brain does not recall who/what NSS is. Anyone able to help?

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

New Star Software.

They were running a campaign and looking at doing a new "star system navigator" program that never made it out do to programmer turnover as I remember.

Revanche was in charge if I remember.

Jimmy the tulip did a lot with it as well.

I was...on the outskirts...but I don't know what is going on with it now, if anything.

My priorities go towards my own writing now, so I lost track of where they were a while back.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Google search turns up nothing for them I could see. Oh well...

_________________
[b]When life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.[/b]
[url]http://210darryl.wordpress.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-ireland.gif[/img]

Revanche is still around. He surfaced a month or two back IIRC.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

I can get a hold Jimmy the tulip if you all want me to for information on that, I know him and Revanche still talk regularely

_________________
Everyone here is crazy except you and me, and I am NOT TO SURE about you.

People like you are the reason People like me need medication.

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-marines.gif[/img]

That would be awesome if you could.

Do you know if they are on facebook?

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?