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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
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Overview: Inner Sphere personnel have developed colored focusing crystals to make their energy shots match a color of an environment (such as black to match nighttime or outer space) to make their shots less visible by opposing force(s), and Inner Sphere personnel have developed silencers to make ballistic weapons practically silent while said silent ballistic weapons are used to make attacks with. Clan personnel never use either or both of those types of tactics because Clan personnel consider either or both of those tactics to be dishonorable and that's why Clan weapons mass less than comparable Inner Sphere weapon types.

Rules: During the End Phase of each turn, an Inner Spehere technology energy weapon (that hasn't been damaged), may be set to use one colored focusing crystal in a future turn to color any shot (including white) that exits said energy weapon when said energy weapon is used to make an attack. During anytime that an Inner Spere technology ballistic weapon isn't damaged and is used to make an attack, it can't be heard.

Note: I'm not sure about rules for Inner Sphere capital & subcapital ballistic weapons. Theoretically, their silencers would have to be mounted on them, or said silencers can be mounted on those weapons, but Clan capital & subcapital weapons would theoretically have to mass less when using my rules above.

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Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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black is not a Color that a laserbeam could have. it could be ultaviolet or infrared, but never black.
also any shot would be invisible unless it hits something, including smoke or Pollution.

capital weapons can not be silenced as they are always firing faster than Sound Shells.
faster than Sound Shells means you do not hear incomeing, but when it is past you you always hear a sonic boom.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Major General
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Yeah, you can't have a black laser, black is the absence of light.

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It seems very queer that we invariably entrust the writing of our regulations for the next war to men totally devoid of anything but theoretical knowledge.[/i][/color][/size]


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:22 pm 
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MechMeister
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Plus, in the Real World, you can't really see a laser beam, unless there are a lot of particles (smoke, etc.) in the air. And of course, never in a vacuum. We do see the laser spot on the target, but with a powerful laser, that target at that spot won't really be there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:25 am 
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Major General
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The books do mention seeing the AFTERFLASH of it though, but that would stem from bumping up any laser to the point it can slag away half a ton of armor in a single shot; energy levels at which you could hit the moon with ease for almost as much damage. At that point even the air along the path would provide sufficient diffusion, it might ionize, possibly releasing high level radiation in the X and K bands. There's a reason we can use lasers to easily split molecules and with quantum engineering even break atomic bonds.

ANY stray reflections even just from the air would most likely cause temporary (or even permanent) eye damage, which is why modern-times high power energy weapons are banned for ground target use. (weapons that cause permanent blindness are banned by treaty -- with nations that honor them) What you might see isn't visible light, but damage to your retina or even macula from the radiation. Even non-visible light can cause blindness if it is strong enough. See "snow blindness' which is caused not by visible light, but by UV.

Reference for truthiness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean high levels of light energy cannot blind. (sorry Spock, your second eyelid did jack, you're still blind!)

Which is why it's ALSO in the fiction that 'Mechs have filters for that IF they even let you see out of the vehicle directly... which not all 'Mechs even do. Hence the really good 3d holography and circlevision strip... and why when some 'Mechs lose power in the fiction you'll see mention of the pilot "sitting there in the darkness" even though the fight is in the daytime.

If you can filter it, you can probably detect it, meaning you could probably draw it in the 3d render as a queue for the pilot. That's part of why I half expect that 'Mechs would basically have Geordi-vision. UV, IR, X, K, basically all forms of radio and light bandwidths, all able to be remapped into the visual spectrum as needed.

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[size=80][color=#114488][i]
It seems very queer that we invariably entrust the writing of our regulations for the next war to men totally devoid of anything but theoretical knowledge.[/i][/color][/size]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
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Apparently black light lasers or UV "black" light lasers do exist.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=WOVTWt ... sKm8v04QDk

The colored laser beams/pulses/particles/plasmas could be theoretically be colored to blend in with environment's color. While a target might be destroyed, other opposing unit(s) or structure(s) could perhaps not see those shots.

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Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:16 pm 
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Major General
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There is no such thing scientifically as a 'black light' -- hence why the fifth or sixth link on Goog is someone talking about how when they suggested it they were told to shove it.

"blacklight" -- all one word -- typically refers to a UV light, which most people associate with a purple glow that is more a result of poor filtering from the fact that producting PURE UV on it's own is expensive, so 'close enough' sources are used with a filter. This is the same as how commercial white LED's aren't actually white. The materials to make a LED produce white light also produces dangerous amounts of IR and a prohibitively expensive, so instead a blue + uv LED (which is dirt cheap to make) -- a "blacklight" if you will -- is covered with a yellow phosphor. The UV illuminates the phosphor the same way a blacklight makes certain materials fluoresce, and if you review your emissive (aka additive) colour theory, yellow + blue makes white. (since red + green makes yellow and emissive is RGB, not CMY or the 100% halfwit inaccurate RYB taught in gradeschool)

TECHNICALLY as the light actually HAS a light component, it is not ACTUALLY black. That's just a colloquialism for it, not a scientifically accurate one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklight

In any case just because it's not naked-eye visible doesn't mean it can't be seen with hardware, defeating the point of doing it in the first place if your objective is battlefield related some millenia from now. At the energy levels we're talking about in MODERN technology it could be seen with the right hardware and remapped to the visible spectrum.

... and no, matching the background doesn't make sense either since it's an emissive source, meaning it is easily distinguished from the reflective background and ambient light levels. The only way that would work is if you ramped the power down to ambient, in which case it's no more damaging to the target than sitting in normal sunlight.

Generally speaking what you are suggesting makes about as much scientific sense as shoving a jade egg up a steamed clam, treating cancer with tumeric, infections with topical maple syrup, or the entire "organic food" movement.

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[size=80][color=#114488][i]
It seems very queer that we invariably entrust the writing of our regulations for the next war to men totally devoid of anything but theoretical knowledge.[/i][/color][/size]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Major General
Major General

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 8:00 pm
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Location: Keene, NH
Oh and don't even get me STARTED on the BULLSHIT of "silencers". It's called a suppressor... and no they don't make things "nearly silent" any more than getting shot in the chest would send you flying backwards two yards.

Applying it to large-bore artillery scale pieces? BULLCOOKIES. That's almost as silly as having fusion reactors that explode or machine guns that are only useful to 90 yards... oh.

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[size=80][color=#114488][i]
It seems very queer that we invariably entrust the writing of our regulations for the next war to men totally devoid of anything but theoretical knowledge.[/i][/color][/size]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Stratego
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Location: Ft. Hood Texas
Cool! And knowing is half the battle! The rest is the Red lasers and Blue Lasers.

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Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Village Drunk
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Quote:
Cool! And knowing is half the battle! The rest is the Red lasers and Blue Lasers.
I've always been fond of magenta myself...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Stratego
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Location: Ft. Hood Texas
Quote:
Quote:
Cool! And knowing is half the battle! The rest is the Red lasers and Blue Lasers.
I've always been fond of magenta myself...
So the lasers that the Decepticons used?

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:45 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
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I think the only way to get invisible lasers is to beam the beams to a place just in front of the Oponent.
i mean when they can beam ppl in Star trek, why not laserbeams? :angel:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Village Drunk
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cool! And knowing is half the battle! The rest is the Red lasers and Blue Lasers.
I've always been fond of magenta myself...
So the lasers that the Decepticons used?
Maybe a touch darker, but I'll take what's available...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
Posts: 145
Green transparent plastic 2 liter bottles can cause sunlight, that passes through them, to become sort of green, I think. Could there be a black transparent plastic flat figure positioned between the lightbulb of a laser and a focusing crystal to make that laser lightbulb light colored black or perhaps a dark gray color before it goes through that focusing crystal?

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:49 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
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There is no dark Grey light/laserbeam.

Dark Grey is White in a very low intensity.

If you point a Laser on a surface it would create a dark grey dot if it were in absolute darkness and the laser would be white and rather weak.

and there is no White laser, as laserlight is monochromatic, while White is every Color in the visible spectrum at once.

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
Posts: 145
I understand. Thank you cobayashimaru for your explanation.

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
Posts: 145
How do you each feel about that Clan LRM launchers & Clan SRM launchers mass less than comparable Inner Sphere versions because Clan LRM launchers & Clan SRM launchers can't vector missiles indirectly very well because Clans don't use spotter(s) because of zellbrigen or because Clan missiles have great difficulty with their guidance systems going indirectly towards unit(s) or structure(s)? Note that in MechCommander Gold, SRMs can be vectored indirectly; and note that in 2nd episode of BattleTech TV series, Star Col. Kristen Redmond's Vulture did vector LRMs indirectly kind of towards First Somerset Strikers 'Mechs (she must've used her Vulture's seismic sensor since there wasn't a spotter).

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Quote:
How do you each feel about that Clan LRM launchers & Clan SRM launchers mass less than comparable Inner Sphere versions because Clan LRM launchers & Clan SRM launchers can't vector missiles indirectly very well because Clans don't use spotter(s) because of zellbrigen or because Clan missiles have great difficulty with their guidance systems going indirectly towards unit(s) or structure(s)? Note that in MechCommander Gold, SRMs can be vectored indirectly; and note that in 2nd episode of BattleTech TV series, Star Col. Kristen Redmond's Vulture did vector LRMs indirectly kind of towards First Somerset Strikers 'Mechs (she must've used her Vulture's seismic sensor since there wasn't a spotter).
With proper sights, any missile/ballistic weapon could be used as artillery. You are talking about prevalent doctrine but the Clans also have dedicated artillery, so some Clanners are trained in their function. Zell only affects mech vs mech combat but what about using indirect fire on structures or vehicles...or as counter battery fire? Not all battlefield doctrines are based upon individual combat.

As far as noise suppressors go, if the weapon is high velocity, the "crack" caused by the projectile in flight would kind of negate the effectiveness of suppression. Some autocannon fire volleys of rounds, so I can imagine the use of tracers of various colors. I imagine a gauss projectile would be particularly loud at hyperspeed in atmosphere.

Lasers shoot light, not dark...that's just silly, although the crystals could be just about any translucent color. Would the beam be visible under different spectrum, such as infrared or passive thermal? How about the noise on impact? I've seen industrial lasers used to cut metal and they sound similar to crackling of cutting torches. Would a section of armor explode when struck due to the sudden vaporization of material? This is how I describe it in my fiction. I imagine pulse lasers making a tearing sound as the rapid strobing action would produce a series of pops and cracks as it cuts through a target.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Lieutenant, JG
Lieutenant, JG

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:59 pm
Posts: 145
I thank you Mohammed As `Zaman Bey for your explanation. Note that Clan aerospace fighters use zellbrigen also (I think).

_________________
Any rules ideas that I post for BT aren't official unless an up to date BT rulesbook declares otherwise. You might have to wait at least a fortnight for me to reply because I'm usually very active. I won't discuss real life politics or religion on any of these forum(s), but my favorite color is yellow like my skin color (hint).


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