Welcome to the HeavyMetalPro Forums

Okay we hear mention of robotic facotries and such, but what about other robots and droids in the BT universe? Did nothing leading up to Battletechs take the path of home servent or mining helper?

What about "trash compactor" style robots that were the rage back in the mid 70s that would be found, if you believed the hype then, in offices as mail delievers and inter office gophers.

What thoughts do you folks have on the use of robots or droids in BT? Both in the tactical setting and the RPG.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

the battletech universe is certainly not able to build two-legged "robots"

prove: the balancing of a mech needs an interface with a human brain/sense of balance to stay upright. if there would be an alternative riding a mech would become much easier.

other designs that are not two legged: maybe. i dont recall any mentioning of them in the novels though.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

False. Read the CBT:Companion, page ~240. Battlemechs stand on their own just fine. The neurohelmet serves to clarify when it's okay to be off-balance. It's 20th Century technology for bipedal robots to stand upright.
http://www.antiquark.com/img/asimo_history.jpg

Further proof: See the artwork on the cover of the Tales of the Black Widow, where a number of man-sized bipedal robots have been gunned down by Natasha Kerensky.

Further proof: Some workmechs don't even use neurohelmets.

Final proof: In 3025, Steiner was producing very humanoid androids "of dubious moral value" for export. See the Steiner SB.

Robots fill quite a background role in BT. MW1 RPG gives stats for assorted security and agricultural robots. The old Steiner SB also discusses robots at several points, for their mining, construction, and sex toy applications. They tend to be stuck in the background, but they're there. You can figure the more advanced planets make good use of them in house holds. There's the notable cover of Tales of the Black Widow Company, where Natasha Kerensky has shot up a bunch of human-sized droids.

And mining robots have a very, very famous role in BT: they killed Simon Cameron, setting up the fall of the Star League.

Tactical applications? The MW1 security bots weren't all that impressive, but they were only the size of light mechs, sometimes as small as 5 tons. However, 6-ton VTOL drones (MaxTech rules) used to do very useful TAGging duty for my artillery. The MaxTech robot drone rules don't stop at the small scale - you can run 100-ton assault tanks as drones if you like.

The ill-defined Caspars certainly had useful tactical applications, but those seem to be beyond the scale you're talking about.

_________________
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

ok you are right

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

Did some checking, the original MW RPG aka Mechwarrior, had two robots in it, well three really.

One was a security bot that wasn't much more like a vehicle really, then there were two agraiculture robot havesters.

Then back in the novel Leathal Heritage there is mention of the robots the Dragoons used on their training field...Roo Bots or something like that I think was how they were done up in an issue of Battletechnologies...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Don't forget Dustball's pleasure droids.

_________________
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

the light harvester was buildable under vee rules as well, mostly. i never was able to get the heavy one working.

_________________
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/geek.gif[/img]

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here."

I used the security bots (or AI vehicles) from MW1 in "There I Was..." in the Star League dream sequence.
Robotics remain primarily in manufacturing lines...

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans

The Big harvester I did get to work, but had to do a custom weapon for the combine it had...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

o0 what rules set? i could NEVER get it to work as a superheavy combat vee

_________________
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/geek.gif[/img]

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here."

I used the Combat Vee rules and it turned out close enough to what they had, I used FA, Level 3 and then added the custom weapon so to speak.

I will post it once I get home.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Giving this another round of thought, how many of the factories on Terra and other points in the Sol System as well as other worlds with mech factories are robotic run factories? By this I am meaning where all of the labor of welding, cutting, moving, wiring, assbemlying etc...is done by computer run robotic arms and other such robots?

One has to wonder if this is the way certain things are being given credit for allowing large growth in the Inner Sphere or not...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Another example of robots: drones NapFind and PathTrack of Hi-Scout Drone Carrier

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Is the NapFinder/PathTrack a an example of robotics or RC toys to the max degree?

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

Ah....the Steiners make sexbots.

The Canopians just go for the real thing.

I know where I'd rather live.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

and I know which would be "higher maintenance"

_________________
Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

I am willing to bet the Stiener one would be, after all it would be about 230 pounds of muesle and have a built in work out plan, that is design to kill as well as excite.

Seriously though, does anyone have any comments on the question about how many of the factories in the Inner Sphere, related to Terra as well as else where are robotic type?

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Well, I would say the vast majority of the yards and factories during the Star League used robots.

Remember that they built THOUSANDS of WarShips, hundreds of thousands of 'Mechs, and a pretty much uncountable number of vehicles, guns, combat armor, and other weapons of war.

The Star League built so much stuff that 300 years later we are STILL sometimes finding it lying around in some podunk out of the way duststop of a world. You don't build that much without it being automated. Heavily.

Also, I do remember in TRO 3025 it said that the Javelin factory (IIRC) in Davion space was FULLY automated. People put metal and other needed stuff in one side, and a BattleMech came out the other side. The puny little humans just watched in awe and hoped the magic factory didn't break so hard that the automated repair systems couldn't fix it. This seemed to be an exceptional factory though, possibly the only one left in the Human Sphere like it. It built something like 300 or so a year.

And on the OTHER side of the spectrum is the Bandersnatz that is built by hand and only like 12 a year are built.

I would say that MOST factories are going to have moderate to high levels of robot automation, though supervised by humans with humans doing the "thinking" stuff. Or in 3025 with humans pushing button 1, then 3, than 5, then 2, without really knowing what it does but knowing that a weapon of war comes out the other side. And if it doesn't, hit button 6 and hope the repair bots can find the problem.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

It was the Valkyrie Factory on New Avalon that was / is Heaviliy Automated.

Good points you have raised about automation in Star Leauge factories.

Dave.

_________________
Battle Corps : FED-03C3

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img]

Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Aahahaha!

BEWARE!!!!!

Yrs sincerely
The Opera Ghost
— (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)

I recall that something was said in the Mairk Housebook about SL robot factories.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Oh, you want talk about production numbers? House Marik gives production numbers for 13 operational 'Mech factories (total # of operational factories is 17). Few go up over 60 'Mechs per year of various designs (in and around 3025 that is). KaliYama's factory on Kendall makes 25 Orions year and no other 'Mechs. Lowest is Technicron on Savannah with 9 Quickdraws per year. Lowest # of given 'Mech design comes from Corean Enterprises on Stewart with just 4 Goliaths in year (along with 8 Trebuchets and 16 Locusts).

And what do we find from TRO3039? Daboku is interesting one: 90 tons, planning began in 3036, design entered production in 3038 and "short test-run of 300 was produced before the line was closed down and retooled." I've been told that Daboku entry in other TRO says that production ceased even before end of War of 3039. The 300 Daboku were made by Luthien Armor Works that was busy churning out other assault 'Mechs: CGR-1A9 and HTM-26T.

Of course by this time Duke Hassid Ricol had handled over his copy of Helm/GDL/SL memory core and DC's remaining 'Mech factories (that weren't lost to FRR) had been greatly improved and expanded...

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

LOL I think Matti wants to confirm that you know what you're talking about Kar

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

I am sorry, I am not sure what you are talking about, so as not wanting to add to any confusion, I will stick to the topic on hand, where we are talking about robotic factories and the use of robots/droids and other similar items in the Battletech universe, not production numbers, I believe that would be another topic all to it's self and one that will lead us to discover that the reported numbers can not keep anything actually running or working given what we have been told etc...similar to the reputed 3 million Clone troops in Star Wars, the numbers don't quite add up given the number battles, the calsuites and the number of years it takes to grow the Jango clones, and even with the special late war 1 year growth rate clones the numbers just don't add up, same is likely true in this universe as well. But again that would be an entire topic all of it's own.

So moving back to the topic on hand...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Opps Sorry

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

No problem Khan, things drift around and what, so no foul all is sporting.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

You're right the old british war films are really coloring your dialog ol chap.

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

Yeah...well some of them are really good movies.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

So....my question would be...how common ARE robots?

Manufacturing bots are common. But what about personal robots? Ok ok...I know the sexbots. But what about butler bots? Hmmm...I suppose a sexbot could be dual purposed for that when not...well...well...

So...Are they an affectation of the rich? Or are they more middle class?

Also, I wonder how many of those building guards at old folks homes are actually robots in unpowered armor fully covered so you can't tell they aren't human.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

The hints and comments in the older books made it sound as if they were not uncommon, not to the point of SW common where they are around just about every corner etc...

Really it seems to be one of the areas that got dropped and never done much with except for the odd mention or two here or there. And up until recently the same could be said of cybernetics, odd one off mentions here or there, one main character having a cybernetic limb, and then how many years go by before we see anything more about it?

The idea of a robotic operated factory would be something I think should be a bit more common at least on the worlds like New Avalon and other major industrial worlds. And I would expect to see common labor bots working at some spaceports or doing hazardous jobs like working in methane plants etc...

As I mentioned before the original RPG book for this game, MW1, made reference to several robots types and they used the vehicle rules to make them, so I am not sure if they had plans to do more or not with this idea and never got to it or what, but it is an area that I think should be explored and thus why I original brought up the topic.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Sounds to me then like they would do a lot of the hazardous jobs as you mentioned.

And of course a lot of the manufacturing.

Beyond that, they would be used as automated defenses (as shown before) for government or rich corporation assets and by the well to do (not necessarily rich) people who want some extra security or a cool butler/sexbot.

In short, not a part of everyday INTERACTIVE life, but there in the background for those who care to look.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

I've just been reading TRO2750, on page 144 Texas Battleship, it mentions that ''Construction of a Texas attleship, although aided extensively by automation, takes 18 months, almost twice the time needed to build the Monsoon battleships'' // end quote, so to me even with automation it's not what I would call 'Star Wars' type automation factories.

Dave.

_________________
Battle Corps : FED-03C3

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img]

Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Aahahaha!

BEWARE!!!!!

Yrs sincerely
The Opera Ghost
— (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)

Good point, I doubt it would be at the Star Wars level of robotics, that universe had a lot more time to reach the level of AI droids. But somethings should be around for the BT universe that are missing, cleaning robots, (no note Rosie the Robot from Jetsons, but that could be something to consider) to limited battlefield robots.

And as said the push to keep humans safe would mean a lot hazardous jobs would be done by robots. Space construction sounds like a prefect area to use robots to do repairs and the actually work of welding etc...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

limited battlefield robots?

is that like robots that run over the battlefield helping the wounded?
carriers of amunition?

or weapon carriing and -using robots?

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

Sure I could see the level of technology at one time for the SL having such things as well as medical robots and other similar types.

I doubt we would see droids as shown in Clone Wars marching into battle, but I am sure there would be groups who would be pushing for such things.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0 ... 71,00.html

The above link is the most famous of the robots, actually the movie gives us the term Robot. Even the ones shown there might be too advanced for BT or they might not be.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Kar. I think that if Battletech was a new game writen now i.e in the early part of the 21st Century we would see Robots as a major part of the 'back bround / sub plot'', Though as it was writen way back in the late 1980's Robot's were I guess more sci-fi than giant walking fighting Battlemechs, a sad out-look.

But saying that I'm sure there is loads of room to find some place for them game wise with out spoiling the game, take cybernetics for example that has been part of the game from the start - bionics, the FWL's hate of them...which I find very funny now that we have the W.O.B based major league wise in the FWL for years, surly these bionics in the game must allow the same tech to exist for robots in the style you mentioned - cleaning droids etc OK there has to be a small 'dog' brain but the tech is there - surly bionics are way harder to do ?.

Dave.

_________________
Battle Corps : FED-03C3

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img]

Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Aahahaha!

BEWARE!!!!!

Yrs sincerely
The Opera Ghost
— (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)

One would think we would be now see more about the robots and such...I hope that we do in future see more about things.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

No Tachikoma there...

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Ok maybe not the most famous in America, I didn't see Johny Sako

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

I don't know, there were plenty of robots in '80s media. The walking soda machine in Robotech comes to mind.


I see commercial/consumer robots being common on the richest worlds, or those with very limited food supplies/air/water. For example, a major capitol city/world has robot desk clerks at a hotel because the minimum living wage is high enough to make the robot a cheaper option. On a world say with habitat domes it might be easier on resources to have a robot mailman or whatever then having to ship in the food, water, and so on for a human one.


There are also the newer AI for the Black Wasp (or whatever the name of the AI fighter to go with the Casper) which gives rules for combat quad mechs and vehicles.

One last type of robot/AI I would definitely see being widely used is a sort of monitor robot. It could be a computer that monitors a set of security systems and sounds an alarm when activity is detected to the computer that balances the fusion reactor so you don't have 20 technicians working real time to keep a mech from going nuclear. This could include the security guard bot walking any number of set patrol routes.

Excellent points, but the problem or point is we don't see any of these things, the bleed over from the improvements to the military side of things would mean the civilian side improves, advances would find civilian applications and thus improvements would follow, yet we have not seen this.

I do not have the new RPG book for BT, so I am not sure what is there that covers robots etc...but really I think having something that covers this area would be a good thing for a future sourcebook or supplement to the game.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Karagin, Youv'e hit the nail on the head there, Battletech even the RPG side of it always seems concerned with the Military side of the game, not the Civilian side, so any & all inprovements on the civil side of things gets overlooked.

Dave.

_________________
Battle Corps : FED-03C3

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-uk.gif[/img]

Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Aahahaha!

BEWARE!!!!!

Yrs sincerely
The Opera Ghost
— (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)

The RPG should cover all sides of the story, while it is fun to have the player characters run around and blast stuff, there is more to the universe then that, those who are playing the RPG side need the missing information to some degree that allows them to show the non-military side of things. Every single sci-fi universe normally gives a good showing of the non-military side of things, even a simple brief over-view is more then enough to cover things.

Maybe it is time for them to cover that aspect of the BT universe in some detail and better flesh out things.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Original house sourcebooks
TRO: Vehicle Annex
Handbook serie

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

A little more discriptive for some of the newer less well read viewers there Matti if you please.

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

Was thinking we should also see more medical robots, those would have tons of military applications and yet we don't see hardly anything at mentioned about it. Why is this?

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

You can download original 3025 era house sourcebooks from here (House Davion Sourcebook etc.) and have a look for yourself.

Technical Readout: Vehicle Annex has Support Vehicles, airships, exoskeletons, boats (submarines included), aircrafts, trains, satellites and IndustrialMechs. Great majority of those are aimed for civilians.

Handbook serie seems much like the original 3025 era sourcebooks. Except Handbooks take place in year 3067.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Oh LOL, Caught me in my laziness. I don't see the Support Vee book really supporting the Robotics discussion to much from my reading of it, The original House books were rife with inconsistancies so they are not a good "Canon" source per se. The Handbook Series are a nice fluff filler, I can't actuallt sit down & read one without falling asleep. Not a cut against the writing just that ecinomics (sp?) bore the crap out of me.

_________________
[img]http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0a8555.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.murphyslawgaming.com[/url]

Well... Actually I was answering to this and related posts:

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

OK...so instead of saying "always" he should have said "most of the time" and "except for a few small examples" or something like that.

The point remains that outside of the House Books and the new Handbooks there is very little civilian-side information in print.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?