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Okay let's talk about the War of 3039:

Topic #1:

Could it have been avoided?

I think it could have. As much as Hanse wanted to finish off yet another enemy of his nation, I don't think the FedCom was fully ready for a war while it was still trying to recover fully from the Fourth Succession War and absorb the gains made from that and the merger of the Commonwealth and the Federated Suns into one nation.

Topic #2:

Could the FedCom have actually beat the Combine during this time period?

This one is harder to say. The Combine had just gone through one war against the Roinn troops. They had also began to adjust to new tactics and equipment. So it's not like they weren't fully ready after the changes made to their nation via the 4th War either. FedCom was bigger military wise, but had twice the borders to protect.

Okay so I would to hear what you folks think about this war and your ideas on the two Topics above...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

It could have and SHOULD have been avoided IMHO, because I don't think it was winnable by either side.

The DCMS was in a rough spot, as you say, and Hanse might have seen that as an opportunity.

But the newborn FC was still trying to consolidate itself. There were still many deep set political and military divisions, and leftover issues from the 4SW as you say. The FC simply did not have a good internal foundation for being able to definitively win another war so soon after the 4SW.

So why, then? Why waste resources in an unnecessary, unwinnable war? Sun Tzu (The Art of War, not Sun-Tzu Liao) would have been ashamed...

My thought is that Hanse wanted to divert attention away from the FC's internal issues. And what better way to do that, to unify both Steiner and Davion, than to stir up the Draconis Combine? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, indeed!

Unfortunately, that unity was illusory at best, and only lasted as long as the FC had outside enemies big enough to overwhelm the internal issues. Once things grew relatively calm for the FC, it was only a matter of the "right" people (Katherine) pushing the "right" political buttons for it to all fall apart. So in a way, it could be said that the foundation of the FCCW was laid by the War of 3039. It was a short sighted patch job, creating a false sense of unity to distract from the problems instead of solving them.

Maybe Hanse wasn't such a "Fox" after all, huh?

Fini.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Moved to the proper forum.

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Rick
~~~~~
[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

So the proper forum for vehement arguments about the Jihad is the main forum, but the War of 3039 is fanfic?

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Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

No. I was neglect in moving the other one (just got back in town), and thought that a thread with, what, 3 pages, would cause more confusion in being moved. I hope to move any threads that concern BattleTech Fiction and History, to this thread, where people should expect them to be.

This isn't a slam against the thread, or any topics; it's just trying to bring back some of the organization that has been missing lately. Please don't take it personally.

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Rick
~~~~~
[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

none taken or even thought of...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

The FC could have and should have won the War of 3039.

Only ComStar's gifted BattleMechs and technologies gave the Combine a fighting chance, and then only because they took what forces they had and sent them on a hairbrained assault that made the FC think there Combine had more units than they thought.

The FC won the Fourth Succession War mainly because they were better at fooling their enemies. The Wolves caught the attention of the Combine, fooling them into not attacking the FC. The FC fooled the FWL into thinking they were attacking with far more forces then they were, and the FWL pulled their forces out rather than risk them. And of course the FC completely and utterly fooled everything and everybody in the Capellan Confederation, resulting in the near destruction of that realm.

In 3039, the Draconis Combine, with ComStar aid, fooled the FC into thinking they had a powerful military by performing actions that ONLY a powerful military would do. A full frontal assault into the middle of an invasion. Faced with such an assault, the FC fell back and consolidated. It took them years to realize that they'd had the Combine beaten, and that if they'd only continued to push forward, they would have had the entire realm on its knees, and been one step closer to rebuilding the long lost Star League.

In short, we have the old-school ComStar to thank for the fact that the FedCom did not effectively take over the vast majority of the Inner Sphere. If they had, they could have forced an arrangement with the Marik and the Confederation that would have made Hanse Davion the First Lord of a reborn Star League.

And when the Clans came, they would have run straight into the most powerful nation since the Star League, with the backing of a completed, if not fully willing, Star League. And THAT would have been enough to bloody, and maybe even stop, the Invasion.

But ComStar could not abide the idea of a reborn Star League without them at its head, so they did everything they could to sabotage and stop the FC, and in the end left the Inner Sphere weakened against the coming Clan threat.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

All wars are avoidable. Since when has any of the Succession Wars been prompted by need?
Possibly but at a cost they could not afford. The FedCom would have been bled white, occupying far too much than they could hold while having to watch the other borders.
While ComStar's deal with some improved tech surprised the FedCom, it was the DCMS's resiliance and aggressive determination that threw the invasion back, made Hanse Davion blink and reconsider the cost.
The War of 3039 was no "done deal" in any estimation.

Hanse leading the SLDF by the time of the Clan invasion? More like the despot over scores of rebellious systems with the rabble that was once his military feebly maintaining order in his own realm. The Clans would have absorbed the IS and Periphery in a year.

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[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans

How long THAT Star League would had held together? Grey?

Interesting alternative. Would anyone care to type some fan fic about these scenarios?

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[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

How about you give it a shot and let us see what you had in mind...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Here's my answer:
IF it lasted that long. More likely Hanse would have been bumped off in short order by a political rival (Mask agent being likely) and the whole thing would have come apart as Hanse's many enemies grabbed for their piece of the pie.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Or by his own daughter...

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Oooh....Now THAT is interesting...

Hanse Davion breaks the Combine army and forces the Coordinator to accept Hanse as the First Lord of a newborn Star League. Now surrounded, Rasalhague and St. Ives quickly do the same. The Marik, seeing one ally gone, and another nutso, smiles, says "good doggy" and does the same. Soon thereafter, the nutters in charge of the Confederation die in a "mysterious accident" and their successors smile, and follow the rest of the Inner Sphere in bowing to the new First Lord of the Star League.

The children of this new union are of course courted by all parties, and in the end Hanse and Melissa die when a flower pot goes boom boom in their faces. Victor becomes the official First Lord of the Star League.

Katherine blames Victor and pulls the Lyran Commonwealth out of the Star League. The Combine, Free Worlds League, and Capellan Confederation quickly follow suit, AND begin reclaiming their lost territory with lightning strikes that suggest they had something planned for this for a while.

Lyons Thumb falls. FWL regains lost wedgie. Capellans regain much of their territory, Ridzik Brothers start reforming the Tikonov Free Republic, and the rest remains the Chaos March as known today.

The question I have is what would the Clans do? The Star League has been reformed. When they got word of that, would they choose to sit back and wait to see what happened to it, or would they move to join it (doubtful in my opinion), OR would they consider it an affront to their pride that it was reformed without them and attack EARLIER?

If the latter, we could easily see a Clan Invasion in the early 40s, nearly a decade before it hit in canon. If that, we would see them hitting a just barely formed Star League, but with minimal tech upgrades. The new First Lord would be able to order all units to fight the Clans, and would probably use Combine, League, Capellan, and merc units as cannon fodder to weaken the Clans while using his Federation and Commonwealth forces to break them when he had the chance. But what would make that hard is the transportation network. There just weren't enough JJs back then to MOVE that much stuff, so the Clans would be conquering much like they did in canon, just ripping through stuff with ease. There would be a few defeats of course, wherever the Star League was able to concentrate and smash them hard enough, but in general because they just couldn't move the forces it would be a large case of losing territory.

Of course, knowing how many units the Clans brought, it would only take a few defeats to STOP them. So how far would they be able to go in before being smashed? Also, WHERE would they go in? The First Lord reigns from New Avalon presumably, unless ComStar has joined the Star League. And even if they have, he would spend a lot of time at home, so breaking his power base would be the best way to break the new League right?

So I see the Clans hitting the Outworlds Alliance, using it as a base, and then diving towards New Avalon and Terra from there. The Combine army would still be shattered so would put up minimal resistance, and they would be hitting the Davion Outback for the first many light years, making their progress much easier. They wouldn't run into real resistance until they started hitting the Crucis March or the Robinson heartland, but that world would probably fall much like Tamar did.

Of course, if ComStar joined the Star League, would they tell the League about THEIR army? And their WarShips? Because if they did, that would add a large amount of material AND transport capability to the Star League Army, making it much harder for the Clans to steamroll everybody.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Good question indeed! Khans would have meeting and talk about it and come to conclusion that barbarians of IS got done by themselves what they were going to do. Then Clans would follow progress through reports of Wolf's Dragoons and come to IS to introduce themselves peacefully. Everybody would live happy thereafter... which would dry out reasons to play CBT

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[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Oh god, :Wipes tear from eye:

Did you just say the clans wold do anything peacefully?

If anything, they'd get hissy as to how they are the sons of kerensky and no true Star League can be formed without his lineage at the helm.

Then all hell would break loose as the clans vied for possition to overthrow the "usurper"

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

I could see ComStar playing it's games at first, then coming on board in full force once they find out that Terra is the true goal of the Clans. And the Clans would change tactics I think faster then they did and given that the Cappies are still going to be sore from the 4th might try to drag feet...all leading up to splinters ville sooner rather later.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

You know, if Teddy K did concede to Hanse, Hanse might very well have demanded an arranged marriage to seal the alliance. Which makes the pairing of Victor and Omi almost a given, with their children destined to inherit the position of 1st Lord, and by default the thrones of New Avalon, Tharkad, and Luthien. They would, by necessity, have met up when in childhood and adolescence, so the mutual attraction that drew them in canon would have even more time to grow in the alternate timeline.

The next possible pairing would be Hohiro and Kate, but it usually involves the 1st born son of the winner, not the loser, so this is very unlikely.

Of course, the earliest possible date for such a marriage would be 3050, I think, when Victor (and Omi?) comes of age. So if the clans haven't struck yet, or struck at the same time as in canon, the union would have presented the Inner Sphere with very interesting consequences.

And if the clan invasion happened earlier, which is much more likely, the Inner Sphere would have suffered much about the same as in canon, and I figure Tukayyid would still have happened. The biggest difference is that Victor and Omi's union would be a huge rallying point for the battered LC and DC, and the whole thing becomes a titanic two sided war between the Clans and the combined Houses.

TWG

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The truth shall set you free, but first it will make you miserable.

With the under tones of CapCon separatist and other groups ie the Black Dragons trying to pull their little stunts as well. And given that other point above the deal where Katherine blows up mommy and daddy...well it makes for an interesting universe.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Y'all seem to think Jamie couldn't see how bad things would get if he narced . . . But then, if the 'Goons had to fight a Civil War over what culture they belong to . . .

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[url=http://www.hitbox.tv/hmpgoose]Goose - The Egyptian God of Frustration[/url]

"He closes his eyes and remembers the night splattered with brightness, the sudden flare of erupting fuel, the mad chase as, supersonic, he bobbed and weaved among the hills and valleys of the Ozarks, the laws on his tail, burning for home …"

He might step in to help or he might not. Depends on how he feels and given that with the FedCom running things mercs won't be in a big demand, so odds are the Dragoons will have an early start on what to do.

Option A)

Report back to the Clans with all that have. (Going with our discussion above) and then return with the invading force? Knowing full well the Inner Sphere will shatter harder then they have ever before.

Option B)

Contact Hanse tell him everything about the threat the Clans are, offer him some of the advanced tech to help the IS out, and convince him to make changes in the way things are setup etc...

Option C) Sit it all out either on Outreach, which they would have given that the 4th War went as canon tells us. And start building the AMC then, waiting for the collapse and confusion to try and save as many worlds as he and his mercs can...offering nothing to either side.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Yes, why not? Clans aren't barbarians or anything like that...

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

You rolled your eyes at me, I will face you in a circle of equals! You chose the place, but we fight with KNIVES!

Any culture that comes to major decisions after wrestling, knife fights, or having giant robots fight each other, does not in my mine equal "civilized"

For what its worth.

As for 3039, I honestly think that comstar shoulda "taken care" of Hanse long before then. Then it wouldn't have been a problem.

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

No they aren't barbarians Matti, but they are a people who are bred for fighting, nothing more and nothing less. Peaceful to them is their will imposed on everyone else.
Nietzsche's words sums up the Clans to a tee...

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

I think some of you are underestimating just how much Hanse Davion was disliked outside the Federated Suns. Hell, he wasn't even very popular in the Lyran part of the FC. If he was able to start pressuring the Combine enough that it looked like he could put himself at the head of the new Star League, I think several things would happen in very short order.

#1 The Cappies and Mariks could not sit and let the Combine go down; they would have to launch a multi-front war against the FC. And they could probably persuade the Taurians and/or Canopians to join in as well. The smaller powers might not be able to win the war outright, but they could at least enforce status quo and keep themselves from being coerced into a new Star League. Enter the Fifth Succession War, well ahead of schedule...

#2 Hanse would immediately become #1 on everyone's hit list. I can see the conspiracies now, Katherine negotiating with other states to gain recognition if she bumps off Hanse. Of course, that's IF the Death Commandos (or someone else, like ComStar's ROM) don't get to him first. The bottom line is that he wouldn't live out the year, let alone survive long enough to become the First Lord.

#3 ComStar is not going to sit by while anybody tries to recreate the Star League without their say so. The FC would be put under interdiction (again), ROM would be racing everyone else to collect Hanse's head, and the Com Guards could make an early surprise appearance against the FC. Is that a WARSHIP settling into orbit over New Avalon? Nah, can't be...

In short, if Hanse tried to re-create the Star League and take over as First Lord, neither he nor the FC would be long for this world.

Nuff said on that.

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Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

I dunno. Its not like the Interdiction did a whole lot the first time around. Didn't it hurt the other guys more than the F-C? Regardless, there were black boxes and it could make for some very interesting developments there.


Perhaps the F-C would set "peacekeepers" upon the HPGs in their realms to secure their communications. And if ComStar decided to destroy those, I still don't think the FWL/CC would be able to do much with that advantage.

Hell, maybe the schism in ComStar might have happened sooner. Who really knows?

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Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Oh wow...I totally forgot the Black Boxes. With them, the FC could survive (militarily) an Interdiction by ComStar and continue the assault on the Combine.

The Capellans are still crushed at this time and couldn't start an invasion. Besides, their leader is nutters PLUS they are still recovering from the Forth War that ended in 3030 and the Andurien/Canopian invasion that ended in 3037. They won't be in a position to hit the Davions in 3039.

The FWL is still busy reincorporating Andurien itself, but they COULD do something possibly. Canopus is shattered, and the Taurians honestly wouldn't be much more than irritation if they hit, especially with no Canopians and Capellans. Really, the only spoiler I see is the FWL, though ComStar could do something either via underhanded tactics like those used in the Fourth War or bringing out their big guns. But it would TAKE the big guns to do it as we know how well Team Banzai and such deal with smaller attacks.

So I guess the question would be IF ComStar would bring out their WarShips for or against a reborn Star League with Hanse at the head. They might. And I could see them doing a LOT of damage. But, a swarm of fighters could bring them down, so even THEY might not be enough to stop the Fox.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

If ComStar's warships got involved, that would be game over for Hanse and the FC. The IS around 3039 simply has no conventional answer for that kind of firepower. Fighters could sink an old SLDF warship, but that would still take time...time where a warship could be doing some serious urban renewal on whatever happens to be in the bombardment path. And let's not forget that ComStar has its own fighters and dropships, so those warships won't lack CAP. The warship threat could only be met with nuclear weapons, and we don't even WANT to imagine where things would go from there...

Looking at it that way, it makes me wonder why ComStar didn't try something like the Jihad while it still had huge advantages in naval superiority and technology...

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Basically, they wanted to lead the IS out of the wasteland, not VISIBLY cause it. Granted, they were happy to cause it from behind the scenes, but pulling out WarShips would be a bit too visible for them.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Basically, this is what I see happening:

This assumes that the Federated Commonwealth did NOT fall back when the Combine counter assaulted them in the War of 3039. One change, that snowballs into others.

The Federated Commonwealth armies continue moving forward, crushing the Combine forces and turning it into a protectorate of the Federated Commonwealth. The Coordinator is forced to support Hanse' claim to the First Lord position in exchange for limited self rule authority. Rasalhague (surrounded) and St. Ives place their official support behind him as well.

The Free Worlds League, still recovering from absorbing Andurien, and the Capellans, still recovering from the Andurien/Canopian invasion, do not have the power to resist Hanse Davion. Chancellor Romano Liao dies in a palace coup and Tormano Liao is welcomed as the new Chancellor. He agrees to support Hanse's claim. Surrounded, Thomas Marik follows their example, as does ComStar, and the Star League is officially reformed.

It's official capital is Terra, but Hanse rarely goes there and the defacto capital is New Avalon.

3041: Clans learn of the reformed Star League and instantly vote to destroy it.

3043: Contact lost with the Outworlds Alliance due to Clan Invasion.

3044: Clan Invasion hits Draconis Combine/Federation border and begins marching towards Terra. Clan invaders cut through most resistance without issue. The sole major win is when the Combine saves Galedon V by challenging the Falcons to a trial that they would never again return if they lost, and captured numerous Elemental suits to study. ComStar secretly aids the Clans, while trying to get them to destroy Hanse Davion, and the other Houses as well.

3045: Clan Wolf captures Robinson and continues on. Smoke Jaguar/Ghost Bear/Nova Cat invasion of New Avalon is defeated in a long hard battle, with the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons helping to turn the tide. Upon learning that the Clan's ultimate goal is to capture Terra, ComStar challenges them to a trial on the planet of Galtor III. ComStar wins, though suffers horrendous casualties. Clans are forced to a 15 year truce. Operation Scorpion, an attempt to Interdict Hanse Davion from the HPG network, fails when targeted Davion strike forces remove ComStar controls. Anastasius Focht runs a coup in ComStar and begins to secularize the organization.

3046: Many ComStar members leave rather than secularize and form the Word of Blake. It finds many homes throughout Star League as many factions dislike Hanses' rule.

3049: Jade Falcons prepare to violate the Truce of Galtor III and have Ulric Kerensky removed from his post by claiming he sabotaged the war and effectively killed a generation of warriors. Clan Wolf engages them in the Refusal War and the Falcons are shattered. Ulric dies though, and the Wolves are briefly absorbed by the Falcons before being reformed under Vlad's command. Natasha Kerensky does NOT die to jump jet to the head. Sorry guys. Phelan Kell leads the Warden Wolves to Outreach where begin rebuilding.

3050: Victor and Omi Kurita are married, and the plates at the ceremony have the names of numerous planets taken by the Nova Cats and Smoke Jaguars on them. Everybody invited knows what that means and are not surprised when, in his toast, he gives those worlds to his son and daughter-in-law. Victor Kurita-Steiner-Davion and Kai Allard-Liao heroically lead the Star League forces against the Smoke Jaguars, while turning the Nova Cats to their side. The Ghost Bears counterattack into the Smoke Jaguar Occupation Zone, and the war heats up. Kitsune Kurita-Steiner-Davion is born, heralding a new future for the Star League.

3051: Casualties mount on all sides, but with the Nova Cat defection, and the Ghost Bears hitting all parties in a bid to expand, the Jaguars take the heaviest tole. By the end of the year the Jaguars effectively cease to exist in the Inner Sphere, though the Ghost Bears have expanded their territory and are much harder to kill off. On Christmas day of 3051, Hanse and Melissa Steiner-Davion die, victims of an exploding flower pot. Victor Kurita-Steiner-Davion becomes the new First Lord of the Star League. Kitsune Kurita-Steiner-Davion named the new heir to the throne.

3052: Katherine Steiner-Davion blames Victor for their parents death and removes the Lyran Commonwealth from his rule. She calls Lyran troops home, cutting off most of the reinforcements he's been using to fight the Ghost Bears. Thomas Marik and Tormano Liao also remove their support from Victor, annulling the engagements of Peter Steiner-Davion with Isis Marik and Tormano Liao's son (does he have one in canon?) with Katherine Steiner-Davion. Within months, isolated fighting begins between Lyran and Davion forces, often sparked by Word of Blake agents. Ghost Bears sit back and begin digesting their gains.

3053: Tormano Liao and family killed in a palace coup and Sun-Tzu Liao rises to the throne of that realm. He and Katherine Steiner-Davion announce their engagement as the FedCom Civil War begins to wage in full bloom.

3054: Capellan Confederation and Free Worlds League invade the Sarna March, already in the flames of Civil War, and retake much of it. The remainder collapses into total chaos.

3055: Black Dragons attempt to kill the Coordinator and begin an open rebellion using the discontent caused by Victor's attempt to use Kurita forces against the Lyrans. Jade Falcons and Wolves begin raiding into the Combine and Federation, taking advantage of the discord in those realms. Clan Wolf-In-Exile and the Wolf's Dragoons engage both Clans, limiting their gains. Free Worlds League, happy with its gains, attempts to sit back and begin the digestion process, though it is forced back into the war by Word of Blake agents. Confederation continues attempting to retake former worlds from the Federation.

3056: The Star League Civil War is in full bloom, with all member states pulled into it by Word of Blake agents acting in secret.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Sounds better then the canon timeline...dark and more involved. Nice work.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

I see Comstar deciding to just continue as before wanting to "wait and see" claiming the "we're just a neutral provider of services" card all the while there's a HUGE scism over supporting the new star league /vs/ undermining it. Pretty much paralyzes ROM and the Comguard until the chiefs decide if they "like" this new Starleague or not.

They come to their decision with the invasion of the clans, who announce their intention of ruling the universe from their throne on earth. The Toyoma sect still wants to play their games though and enter talks with Marik (who isn't a fan of this organization, and feels the bulk of the fedcom and Combine is speedbump enough against the clans.

Otherwise your analysis seems spot on.

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Yeah, ComStar maintaining neutrality makes a lot of sense.

But on the other hand, they've been wanting to reform it for centuries, so I didn't see them standing on the side lines either. It made more sense to me that they would join it as happy members of the galactic community, and then spend all their time trying to reinvent it in their image from within.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

If ComStar broke out the WarShips, I bet we'd see a return to the 1st Succession War, with nukes flying left and right.

Why are the Clans coming through the Outworlds instead of where they did come through?

And I don't see the Bears expanding into the Jags when the Jags are facing the IS.

Oh, and it would still be Victor Stiener-Davion. No Kurita added to it. Afterall, it wasn't Hanse Stiener-Davion. Omni would be Omni Kurita-Stiener-Davion.

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Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

I don't think we would see the Clans tossing nukes around. The Inner Sphere might if they get to the Clan Homeworlds ala a Serpent type of operation, but I don't see Hanse allowing his forces to use nukes in the Inner Sphere. After all why nuke something you want to capture and hold?

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

I meant if ComStar pulled their fleet out early, before the IS had WarShips. If they couldn't fight on even ground, they would do it uneveningly.

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Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Depends if Focht is charge of the ComGuard or not. If he is, then I think he might do everything he can to change the Primus and her advisers to change their minds about using them unless Terra is about to be invaded, by that I mean the Clan invasion force is in the Sol System.

If he is not in charge of the ComGuard, then well your scenario could be a very likely outcome.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

I agree with the others. I don't see ComStar (if they haven't done so against Hanse) pulling out the WarShips short of an invasion of Terra, then they would pull out WarShips, Nukes, and LAMs. OH MY!

The Clans come through the Outworlds Alliance in this scenario because they want to drive-by New Avalon on their way to Terra. New Avalon is the practical capital of the Star League, and if they can break it they can break Hanse Davion's rule of it, thereby making the rest of the invasion much much easier.

The Bears seem to be rather opportunistic when it comes to things, in my mind. In many ways they are the most opportunistic members of a very opportunistic society. They just have one thing that many in that society don't have. They won't "honor" stand in the way of "survival". Frankly, they see an honorbound and stiff foe/ally being pounded. What do they do? Join in to fight with them against the pounder when the war was brought on by the poundie, OR build up some "buffer room" so they have more territory should the pounder come for them next? I more see them letting the Jaguars die, since they deserved it anyways, but take over some territory that you can use as a meatshield in the future.

Victor STEINER-Davion seems much more "inclusive" to me than Hanse Davion ever was. Hanse Davion was Hanse Davion until the day he died because, frankly, he was just that bad ass. The rules of normal society just didn't apply to him. Hanse was never one for building alliances (outside of being very opportunistic towards Katrina and daughter) and much more into crushing the competition. And honestly, we all know the only reason he was interested in allying himself with the Commonwealth was because they could help him get the resources to CRUSH the Liaos AND the Kuritans. Victor on the other hand is a TRUE alliance builder. He is not and never has been interested in conquest of any kind. It is one of the ironies of BattleTech history, that the son most like his mother is instead identified with his father, while the daughter most like her father is instead identified with her mother.

The point I'm getting to is that Victor is the kind of person who would want to PROMOTE the fact that others are working with him. Because of that, he would WANT to follow the standard naming conventions of adding his wife's family name to the front of his family name. It would make the Kuritans, in his eyes at least, feel they were more a part of the leadership than if he left it out. It also a form of respect, another thing he is really better at than his father. So, Victor would be Victor Kurita-Steiner Davion and OMI would Omi Kurita-Steiner-Davion.

Just wait until Kitsune starts honking the Marik and Liao heirs and we'll start having a nice long name.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

I'm not the one who talked about ComStar involving their WarShips. I said if they did, I wouldn't be surprised if others started throwing nukes around. They're not going to just sit back and allow WarShips to glass their planet.

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Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

If ComStar unveiled their WarShips against the Houses...yup...you are right.

If they pulled them out as a surprise defense of Terra against the Clans, that would be another matter.

_________________
Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?