Welcome to the HeavyMetalPro Forums

As you may have noticed, I've asked around about operating mercenary unit. I've placed an order through Amazon for Mercenary Handbook, and I might get it next week. Or week after that. Becouse around here aren't enough active people with whom to run two campaigns (other is Starterbook: Sword and Dragon), I'll use MegaMek to play my merc campaign with whoever I get to play with.

I've already made some plans and incomplete TO&E. Starting date will be around 3rd Succession War. Founding members of unit were militia of some planet in Rasalhague District, that was attacked by LCAF. Various militia units defended last major spaceport and boarded DropShips before being overrun by heavy 'Mech battalion. If they had gone to another world of Draconis Combine, many officers would had been executed. So they decided to jump to uninhabited star system where they painted over DCMS insignias of their ships and then headed to Galatea in order to work as mercenaries. I'm going to play out that battle, and then continue by the book with whatever I have left after the battle.

What would make up the unit then? I have come up with following before LCAF attack:

1 infantry regiment
  1 battalion + Heavy Hover APC (armed variants with 3 ton space)
  2 battalions + Flatbed Trucks
1 combat vehicle battalion
  1 company Vedettes
  1 company hovercrafts
  1 company heavy stuff
2 'Mech lances

That's about all battlefield assets. Command unit is Heavy Hover APC that is loaded with command staff and lots of computer and communications equipment (think about armoured command vehicles of today). I don't see reason to place it on the board though.

In addition of those I might throw in feather-class scout units (Swiftwind or Skulker), light APCs, more trucks, J-27s, VTOLs, couple recovery vehicles, artillery battery... Snipers? Many of those would be for story purposes if nothing else: "This is Skulker 3, I have LOS to medium 'Mech company in coordinates x,y, bearing 120, moving 50 kilometers in hour". In addition are all other support units and personnel... what are they? How many Unions are needed to carry all of that + supplies, spare parts and ammo (how many tons?)? what else?

I have thought about that spaceport scenario. My forces on the field would be 2 infantry battalions with their transports (Heavy APC for other), vehicle battalion, both 'Mech lances and possibly off-board artillery. Other guy would have full 'Mech battalion and enough BV for most 'Mechs to be Warhammers if player so wishes. MegaMek with default settings + Hidden Units (I have some difficulties with this), Blind Drop and Double Blind. Unfair for Lyrans? I'll set gunnery skill to 5 for most of my units, is that good enough?

I need hold off enemy for 5 minutes (30 turns) so DropShips can get prepped up. I'm not going to do it against whole heavy 'Mech battalion at once, so Lyran 'Mechs enter in waves: at start of scenario will be 'Mechs with walking speed of 6 and greater, 5 walkers come in turn 7, 4 walkers in turn 14 and rest in turn 21. 'Mechs enter one lance at the time, and slowest unit of lance defines when it enters. Any of my units left on the map after 36 turns (6 minutes) will miss the bus. 6 official maps will be used in following order:
|||
|||

Is this any good? What planets meet the criteria?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

1 - I think its a fairly big size Merc Unit. I'd start small if I were you.

2 - If its a militia unit, I don't see there being enough heavy lift assets to evacuate all of that. Transport will be going to front line units first, then any militia mechs, I don't see a regiment of militia infantry going to be able to evacuate. And I bet most of those guys would rather stay behind on their home anyway.

_________________
Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Valid point. I might restrict infantry to one battalion with armed APCs, but I'm still thinking about it. After the first fight I'm happy if from combat vehicle battalion I have left 2 companies. Note that any units that can't move out of the map, will be left to planet and out of roster.

You don't see any becouse I don't know how much is needed. Would 3 Unions be enough?

Front line units are fighting elsewhere or they are cut off the port or they have left already. Or maybe 'Mechs are the front line units

Let's do some math. In platoon there are 28 soldiers tops and that weighs 3 tons. According Total Warfare in company are 3 platoon and command squad, but I make it 4 platoons. That makes 112 rifle soldiers per company. In battalion are 3 companies, which makes 336 soldiers. In regiment are 3 battalions, which makes 1008 soldiers. That is 36 platoons. It weighs 108 tons.

Heavy APC weighs 20 tons, and 12 of those are needed for one battalion (armed ones, remember?). One APC weighs 20 tons, so 12 of them makes 240 tons. For other battalions transport consists of Flatbed Trucks. 24 of them are needed. I don't have HMV at this PC, but if one weighs 10 tons, their total mass is 240 tons. Now let's add tonnage values together:
108+240+240=588 tons
[edit]
Just realized that Flatbed has carry capacity of 7 tons, thus only half of their number and weight are required. However, I'll reserve whole truck for each platoon anyway.

That for full infantry regiment with full self transport capacity. But from start I'm going to leave 3rd battalion less of full strength, 2 companies maybe. In addittion other battalions are likely to take severe beating against 'Mech battalion, assuming other guy has enough brain to pick 'Mechs with anti-infantry weapons. So total tonnage and headcount is going to be much less of 588. Otherwise I'll use 3rd battalion as reserve and source of replacements for casualties of other battalions. In spaceport battle 3rd battalion is out of the map acting as security personnel and setting up mines and traps so others can board DropShips before take off.

When officers tell you to get in APC/truck while heavy enemy 'Mech battalion is shooting at you, is that all you can think of?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

You're missing the point entirely.

I'm not talking about the fact that you haven't listed any DropShips. I'm talking about the fact that militia units will rarely have DropShip assets attached to them. So you're not going to have any to start with.

Which means during a battle, you're going to have to commandeer any, whether they're civilian dropships or military. Chances are the military dropships have already left with the more important units.

And the officers are from the planet!! Why would they want to leave?

_________________
Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Matti your unit has to be plausible, meaning believable. Sure you could have them start with all the cool toys, but where is the fun in that?

Start small, no dropships, no special mechs, no special anything. Come up with a reason for them to have leave the world. That reason should be believable and sound, not half cocked.

Start with a single lance, then over time you could make the case that it would group to a company size element. The larger merc units are special case units. They are the fulcrum. The smaller units are the mainstay. Aim high sure, but keep things realistic and not out in left field. Leave the left field idioticiness for TPTB and their creations like the current story arc.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Ok, here's my weighing in.

--------------------

Most mercenary units either start out really small because they're a few singular entities joining together to make a new unit, or they're the remnants of far larger units that were somehow destroyed and reformed as a new unit.

You want to run that first unit, as a campaign, fine... Here's how I see it:

Pick an era, then pick a bad guy. House power if it's a succession war campaign, the clans if it's a 3050s unit, WOB if it's later.

They're the militia raised from/for the FRR or some such minor holding when they get attacked by your badguys.

Their planet is overrun and their leaders sold them out to the new occupants if it's a house, or the clans were going to enslave them if it was the clans that attacked, or they were gonna get "pacified" if it was wobs.

Either way, the unit fights a holding action, but when it becomes apparent that they're gonna lose, they evacuate as best they can, on a mule or something of the like. Or they counterattack an enemy ship and take it to evacuate. but they're gonna want to evacuate their noncombatant dependents. However you end up doing it, what you can get off planet gets off, but that's it. Those remainders are your merc unit. Their homeland is now irrevocably in the hands of the enemy, and they have nowhere to go. It has to be a small power they come from, because the faction your militia unit came from is going to want that military gear back to equip other forces. FRR/periphery nation is less likely to have the wherewithal to force the issue than say the 5 houses...

--------------------

That's how I'd do that.

_________________
Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

That 3 tons is great to transport them strapped to a bench, but realize that every individual in your unit needs 5-7 tons of lifesupport on that dropship to be quartered. I'm talking bed, shower, and toilet facilities.

When you put a squad of infantry into a cargobay on a dropship it's assuming you're loading them in like the landers in the Starship Troopers the movie, aka a 5 ton pod with rollercoaster-style seating for a brazillion mooks with assault rifles. 150-200 kilograms per man in 5000 kilograms of cargohold space.

Realize that on anything but a huge hauler like a mule or bigger, you're not going to be able to transport your infantry, and even on the mule, they're gonna be stacked in like the freaking Amistad.

There's a reason that infantry doesn't get the call for attack forces, and it's not because infantry can't do mean things in battle. It's because 50 dudes (even just mooks with rifles) is WAY more of a logistical headache than 4 mechwarriors, their 3-5 techs, and 4 mechs... Even ignoring the fact that 4 mechs has way more hitting power than 50 infantry.

I always add a platoon to a company to any merc unit I do, but that's for base security purposes (mechwarriors need their bunks guarded and their gatehouses manned), but more than that and I have to wonder if the house hiring me wouldn't be better served buying a few dozen crates of rifles and militarizing their local police forces/ forming an army-reserve.

_________________
Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

As others have stated, it is best to start fairly small, with a simple background story, and let things grow from there.

There are a few merc origin stories that are pretty common. You can extrapolate from them as a variation on a theme, to create your own story.

1. The remains of a military unit that somehow ended up on the short end of the stick.

- Betrayal. Grey's Shadows started as an AFFS Mech battalion in the Draconis March Militia. Their AFFS transports abandoned them during a border raid gone bad. The Shadows shot their way out, stole a DCMS dropship, and the survivors (a single Mech company) went merc.

- Shell shock. Lee's Longshots started as a Mech company in the CCAF's Confederation Reserve Cavalry. They were overrun by the AFFS at the start of the 4th Succession War, and the survivors (demi-company with a dropship) turned merc rather than go back to the losing side.

2. Ideology. They are mercs because they want to be mercs, for whatever reason.

- The Concrete Dragons turned merc after being discharged from the Capellan March Militia, following the ambitions of their leader.

- In canon, Ace Darwin leads the Whipits when he gets bored because that's just how he gets his kicks.

- In canon, Stalwart Support is a bunch of discharged soldiers who have gotten together as a merc unit for profit.

- In canon, Wolf's Dragoons pretended to be mercs while they were actually working for the Clans.

- In canon, the Eridani Light Horse started as an SLDF unit that stayed in the Inner Sphere.

3. A Periphery world or small nation that uses its merc units as a source of income. An example in the real world would be the Gurkhas from Nepal. An example from canon would be the Oberon Confederation. I believe Medron also uses this theme with his Pryde Rock stories.

Obviously, there are many ways to revise, combine, fold, spindle and mutilate these ideas. Your mileage may vary.

Hope that helps, anyway.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

chainsawassassin wrote: thats very right, and even more: i guess most planets HAVE a local militia that could cooperate. then off course it makes sense to get the local militia trained with the aid of the merc mechs and vees, to get them used to mechs being around or even learn some anti-mech tactics, at least to learn where to aim at a mech...

i would only replace "a few dozen crates of rifles" with "a few dozen crates of anti-mech weapons"(like that cheap shoulder-fired rocket-launchers) in such a case

for a merc-unit a "subcontract" as teachers/trainers of the local militia could both gain them some support and a bit of extra income.

it might make sense to bring along equippment for the enhancement of the local militia along, to sell it to the local government.
after all you could earn a good price "i know that you could get all this delivered to you at half the price after the conflict"
usually mech units hardly ever fit exactly into a classic sheme of organisation, so if the units transport is for a company, but they only got eleven mechs, it makes sense to carry along 50 tons or so of "merchandise". if they could afford it, that is. on the other hand: battlefield-salvage might include infantry-weapons and equippment.

what about adding a platoon of infantry per company of merc-unit, as you suggest, plus one small extra unit of experienced trainers, that could be a single instructor who also keeps the own infantry "fit" or a whole platoons worth of instructors for a battallion sized merc-unit.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

Something here we are forgetting, it cost money for a merc unit to operate on daily bases. Food, fuel, ammo, pay, medical etc...all add up every day...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Right, they haven't. But there just happens to be... four mostly empty Union civilian variants sitting in the 'port, and...
There is also chance that one of those more important units is still left on the planet but has been cut off and can't make it to 'port. So it goes something like this: Merchant JumpShip was commandeered by DCMS to evaquate 'Mech battalion. Four Unions (civilian variants) land at the last spaceport not yet captured by LCAF. It's defended by militia, and two 'Mech lances from said battalion. However, LCAF had managed to send... something between the 'port and retreating DCMS battalion. It's not an essential detail, but I tell it anyway: medium LCAF 'Mech battalion managed to delay retreating DCMS battalion enough, so heavy LCAF tanks got between the 'port and DCMS Battalion. In the meantime heavy LCAF 'Mech battalion goes directly against the 'port with primary objective to capture the 'port and secondary objective to capture any DropShips left there.

So there are 4 civilian Union DropShips, mostly empty. Lyran heavy 'Mech battalion is coming, and there is no way in Hell that two 'Mech lances and conventional militia forces can delay or stop it before DCMS battalion can get through or around to 'port... IF they get there at all. So commanding officer of militia's infantry regiment (I haven't memorized DCMS ranks yet) decides to board those Unions along with everything he can get, and then get to Hell out of there. I have already come up with some background for that officer and man in charge of the JumpShip.

Militia officer is Sven Dufva (I might change name later), and he knows the owner of the JumpShip where Unions at the 'port are from. I call that man Eriksson, for now. He is independent merchant of family line, that has owned JumpShip since fall of the Star League. Eriksson is frequent visitor in the planet, and he also provides military hardware for its militia. Once Eriksson had problems with local bureaucracy: there were new people working who had some difficulties to understand that independent merchant-for-hire is transporting heavy military combat vehicles for militia. Dufva used his position to solve the problem, and invited Eriksson for dinner. Since then men have been buddies: Dufva reduces bureaucracy crap and fees in exchange for Eriksson's information what is REALLY going on outside the planet. You see, in Draconis Combine plenty of news are being censored, or turned to propaganda. But JumpShip crews see lots of things as they happen, and share it with other JumpShips.

So Dufva simply asks Eriksson to take him and his people aboard and think later what to do next. As it eventually turns out, they have violated enough DCMS laws and rules for both of them to get shot and family JumpShip being confiscated. Dufva and Eriksson come to conclusion that returning to DC space is out of the question. Thus they paint over Dracon insignias and head for Galatea.

That is my aim, and I thought I made it more plausible than what William Keith writes in Decision at Thunder Rift about how Tor bought his JumpShip. But let's go throught the forces. It is 3rd Succession War, an era when decent 'Mech is worth more than MechWarrior driving it. Military industry haven't yet recovered from earlier wars. Thus militia ought to have plenty of foot soldiers, not enough combat vehicles (armed APC doesn't count) and only few 'Mechs, if any. That's why great amount PBI compared to combat vehicles. Two 'Mech lances were assigned from their parent battalion to boost up the defense. It's not great loss for 'Mech battalion, but it's great aid for conventional militia. Is this (and other mentioned above) plausible enough? Shall we call vote?

Is that something you subtract from # of cargo DropShip can carry? How many tons exactly for each person? Or is there some predefined number for how many passengers can civilian Union take? Do I need take headcount of vehicle crews and MechWarriors too? How do you guys handle this stuff?

I haven't forgotten it. Are those things covered in Mercenary Handbook? (I haven't received it yet)

I can see following coming:
Dufva: We still don't have contract, and we are running out of money
Eriksson: What should we do?
Dufva: First we sell supplies we don't need
Eriksson: What if it's not enough?
Dufva: I hope it don't come to that. But if it does, we have more DropShips than is needed to transfer our combat elements. If we sell one Union...
Eriksson: NO WAY IN HELL!
Dufva: Calm down, we think something else
Eriksson: I could start doing cargo runs again...

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

in heavymetal aero, adding a passanger or marine to the crew of a vehicle adds between 5-7 tons depending on if it's a marine/2nd class passanger, or 1st class passanger. Adding a platoon to a cargo bay just adds a 5-7 ton pod with bench seating and restraints.

Their two different tabs, one is the crew tab, the other is the cargo bay. The infantry bay is used to make "landers" and VERY short term transport options. It reflects the absolute minimum footprint that that platoon takes up on that ship. Like the diffrence between the little infantry boats (LCA's?) on D-Day and the big civilian liners they packed into for the trip from new york. They didn't spend 4 weeks on the little LCA's, 50 people can't live in a 10x30 boat for very long.

Or more to the point, a school bus vs a Winnebago.

Same size, two different ideas of transport.

_________________
Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

as for mechwarriors and vehicle crews, it's factored into the bay weight.

A mech/ASF bay weighs 150 tons because of the incidentals of the bay. 100 for the mech, 14 for the tech and warrior, and the rest for the winch, tools, and spare parts the bay has to allow for repairs to the mech.

Ditto tank/smallcraft bays. it is also reflected in the crew headcount in the lifesupport and food/rations calculations. But infantry bays don't.

Heavymetal Aero is a smart program. Sometimes too smart, but we won't get into that.

_________________
Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

If there are DropShips just sitting there and their original units have been cut off, chances are they're just going to lift off to avoid being captured by the LCAF forces.

At this point, I highly doubt you're going to have just four civilian Union DropShips lying around, so its really a moot point.

I still don't see a militia regiment up and leaving their world. And being carried by a Dropper, you could subtract from cargo, but remember, you're then being carried AS CARGO. Which means your guys are being holding on to the cargo netting and what not. And unless they brought plenty of MREs, there probably won't be enough provisions for the week flight from the planet to the jump point. Not to mention your guys will probably be tossed around by any high g evasive manuevers.

_________________
Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Based off your stated comments and ideas, you are pushing things to the level of plausibility is lost and munchkin level is being breached. Buying a jumpship can be done, if that is the person's sole goal and he or she works for it, it can happen. No different then someone buying a cargo ship today.

Your starting force is too big to be that, a starting force. You need to trim it down. Look at the canon units, for the most part they start small, gain one or two extra units over time, then slowly get bigger. Yes, there are units that start off big, but those are done for a reason, and normally they are or were intended to be Non-play usable. Your unit as you stated above is pushing the limits. It's to big to be a single entity and just shy of being a group that could write it's own contracts. I suggest you trim it down to a single lance of mech, single lance of APC/IFVs and some infantry and techs and stop there. Then plot out their story, and in the course of time, like 5 years or so game time, they get the chance to add to their main group, be it more mechs or vehicles or extra techs...start small then work to the bigger stuff.

Yes they are and the stuffs not cheap, nor is it easy to get, again two areas that TPTB seems to have conveniently forgotten with the Jihad and WoB.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

All good points, Doc. And your last one is the deal killer. No Militia unit is going to leave, they would either surrender or fade off and be guerrilla fighters, I doubt they would go merc...

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

I really didn't want to get involved with this, but here goes...

Matti: You seem to have your heart set on a combined arms unit, and you also don't seem to understand all the issues of what actually goes into running a big merc unit. So if you don't mind, I will outline a starting combined arms unit for you. It won't be as big as your initial idea, but it will be big enough to be flexible and fun to play, and it will give you some idea as to what REALLY goes into designing a merc unit.

The starting force will include the following.

- One Fortress dropship. It's an old ship that you outbid the scrap dealers to get. It is your combat dropship, as well as your firebase on the ground.

- Units to fill the Fortress. That gives you a Mech company, a vehicle company, and an infantry company. This is a good starting combined arms force.

- A force this size (combined arms battalion) is going to need more logistical support than the Fortress alone can provide. So let's add a second dropship as a support ship. This one could be a cheap cargo hauler like an old Mule or Buccaneer; maybe you bought it from a police auction after it was confiscated from smugglers. This ship carries your techs and other support staff, supplies for your unit, and supporting vehicles, like some flatbed trucks for general use and a recovery vehicle or two. It doesn't land until your combat force has secured your landing zone.

At this point, you have a battalion-sized combined arms unit with two dropships, that is capable of operating semi-independently. However, you still lack fighter cover, medical support, and other things needed to be fully independent. You will want to develop those things in the future. In the meantime, your employer can provide those other supporting issues as part of your contract.

I hope all that helps you get started, anyway.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Oh, I can see some guard guys wanting to save their own ass and hop on a DropShip to get out.

But to listen to your regimental commander, who it looks like decided to leave on his own(afterall, if it was directed from higher up, they aren't going to have the ability to just turn merc), most would laugh in his face.

They're not going to leave wife and kids and what not. Hell, I bet half of them would work for the invaders once things settled down. They're defending their HOME afterall.

_________________
Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Point taken. Slight modification to original idea: Militia stays on the planet, but the two 'Mech lances (or what ever are left of them) will board one of the DropShips. DropShips take off, and MechWarriors make deal with JumpShip's staff: passage to Galatea for fair share of supplies aboard the DropShips. Then JumpShip goes its merry way. Is this small and plausible enough?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Yes.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

Great! I'll start from there. Now I need to know planet in Rasalhague District that gets attacked by LCAF in 3rd Succession War. Do you know any? Who wants to play the LCAF side with MegaMek?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Found myself from House Steiner. Not all are mentioned, but first what are mentioned, include: New Caledonia, Keller and Harvest. That in year 2885. Have any of you played merc unit that far in history?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

I think I have found what I've been looking for: Phalan in 2952. I consider that good time to start, becouse it's (relatively) near of point when 3rd Succession War dwindles down from conquering to raiding. Also there isn't much source material covering that time period, so I can do and write almost what I want within limits of plausible. If I later want meddle with 4th Succession War, it's not too far off to go for it.

Whaddya think?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Me? No. I have played battles set in that time frame, but not as a merc...you do know you can re-role the settings or simple pick the Rasalhague area as were you come from, you don't have to follow the MW3 setup 100%, it's your unit after all, we are just asking that you keep it believable.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

You might want to find the objective raids books took, theyt will give you alot of good ideas for missions. I think Stilletto book had some stuff in there as well for mission/creation but its been a while since i read that book.

_________________
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... ryland.gif[/img]

Thanks, I know it by name. I'll see if I can find it. I have also looked for other source material, and I have encountered problem with Amazon: when I try place an order for The Periphery book (1st one of 3025 era), I get message it can't be delivered to my address. I guess I need find it from somewhere else, eBay maybe.

So books I'm going to get in the near future:
Mercenary Handbook (3025 era, order placed and waiting for arrival)
The Periphery (3025 era)
Brush Fires
Objective Raids

Are any of the Field Manuals any good for (pre) 3025 setting? Anything else?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

It looks like I can have big MegaMek game next tuesday. Starting 13 o'clock GMT +2 winter time, I set up MegaMek host and start game with whoever happens to be there first. I'll post BV and IP address before that, possibly tomorrow evening.

Force must be full Lyran 'Mech battalion (36 'Mechs), and you can already make some guess about BV from descriptions of my forces. Choose freely from 3025 table, restrictions to what is available in year 2952, standard variants only and no special 'Mechs.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Are you aware how long a a battalion size game will take? Even with MM?

_________________
Doc
"An artist is never appreciated until he's dead."

Not really... but I'm aware how long company size games take. It can't be that bad, it's only 30 turns and it's likely I don't move even half of my units in turn... And my force size is gonna be way over battalion!

Tank battalion = 36
2 'Mech lances = 8
Infantry battalion or 2 = 12 or 24
Vehicles for infantry battalion = 12 or 24
Total number of units = 68 or 92

Maybe just one infantry battalion with just 3 platoons and APCs per company instead 4 each, that would make... 62 units on the map. Much more manageable

So any takers?

[edit]
If klo 13 is too late, I could start 11. And if someone in here could tell ETA for how long 30 turns would take. Also note, that unless Lyran player takes whole battalion of Phoenix Hawks and other fast movers, there are 'Mechs that he won't move either, until in turns... 7, 14 and 21 depending the speed of lance.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Maximum BV is 35k, which must not be exceeded. Default skills for all 'Mechs (4 gunnery, 5 piloting). MegaMek version will be newest snapshot, which right now is version 0.33.14 that was put on-line in 2007-12-28 (link). Following MM game options will be in effect:
Double Blind
No Double Blind Messages
Blind Drop
Real Blind Drop

I'll set up host at 11 o'clock (instead 13) GMT +2 winter time. That is less than 13 hours from this post (12 hours 45 minutes). My IP address right now is
88.193.39.84
I don't bet my head if it is static or not. If not, I'll post current IP address shortly before opening host.

If at all possible, set up your force and save it to file before joining on my host. Further instructions will follow when game is set up. Until then, good night

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

I have opponent! DarthTutty from MegaMekNET server took my challenge. But I almost ripped my hair off when MegaMek complained that Any can't be used for deployment while Double Blind is in use. Thus scenario turned from advance/delay to meeting engagement. 7 turns played so far, and will continue tomorrow. Story so far...

Command Lance
Tai-i Jacob Lagerlöf CPLT-C1 Catapult
Master Sergeant Oskar Adolfsson RFL-3N Rifleman
Sergeant Major Lasse Hietala SHD-2H Shadow Hawk
Master Sergeant Dag Eriksen PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk

Recon Lance
Chu-i Simon Paterson PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
Master Sergeant Daniel Olsson STG-3R Stinger
Sergeant Major Egil HellesØ WSP-1A Wasp
Master Sergeant Viljo Ahonen WSP-1A Wasp

Phalan in 2952. Lyran Commonwealth's major counter attack against Draconis Combine is starting to show results. Problems of LCAF's battlefield effectiveness have largely been solved, as DCMS defenders of Phalan have learned through hard way. What appeared to be successful counterattack by DCMS 'Mech battalion, proved to be well executed trap. Now survivors of 'Mech battalion are surrounded by Lyran combined arms forces as Lyran full 'Mech battalion attacks last major spaceport still under Draconis control...

Appearance of Lyran 'Mech battalion just west of the spaceport came as complete surprise. As heavy combat took place elsewhere, DCMS didn't expect anything more than raid against the spaceport. Two regular 'Mech lances and conventional militia forces, combat vehicle battalion and mechanized infantry battalion, move out to meet this threat. MechWarrior Viljo Ahonen jumps his Wasp on top of tall hill for lookout.
"Ahonen here, I have contacts. Looks like light company. They're still in forest, and closing rapidly. Nothing else in sight... yet."
"So close already." Speed of enemy force surprised tai-i Lagerlöf. "Looks like they don't want give us time to prepare." Lagerlöf changes his radio to militia's frequency. "Tai-i Lagerlöf to Sho-sho. Full company of scout 'Mechs are emerging from forest shortly. Heavier enemy forces are still out of detection range, but they are likely coming." Without waiting for response, Lagerlöf switches back to frequency of his 'Mechs.
"...believe this!" came Ahonen's voice over radio. "Those 'Mechs look like new, all of them! No scratch in paint or anything. Those haven't been in combat on this planet. I guess they are reserve force that were just waiting for perfect opening... like this!"
"That might well be. What are we exactly up against?"
"Locusts, Commandos and Firestarters, full lance of each."
"Understood. Relay the information to militia, and keep them posted."
Militia's hovercrafts take the point. Platoon of Saracens and another platoon of Condors lead the way. With their long range weaponry, they are well suited to engage enemy forces and hopefully buy time for slower units to get in positions. However, speed puts up demand for militia equipment, that is often at bottom of the list for spare parts. One Condor breaks down.
Enemy 'Mechs emerge from forest. Battle begins. Saracens are first to open fire with their Long-Range Missiles. Armed APC hovercrafts deploy infantry while tanks take positions on hills that give them good field of fire.
"Sho-sho to tai-i Lagerlöf. Vedette platoons Alpha and Bravo will take and secure hills. Give them support."
"Lagerlöf here. Command lance with me. Scout lance, secure north flank."
Lyran scout 'Mechs meet the advancing Combine forces on and around the hills. Combat hovercrafts are in thick of the battle as they keep pressure in northern side of Lyran 'Mechs. Pegasus hovercrafts, with their short range weaponry, observe closely seeking for opening to rush in and use their devastating short range weaponry against any 'Mech that gets too far from others.
"Ahonen here. 'Mechs moving towards south. They are going to flank militia down there!"
Lagerlöf bit his lip. "I'll take care of them. Hietala with me." As Catapult and Shadow Hawk move towards south to intercept flanking force, heavy combat takes place on and around hill nearby.
"Eriksen here. Enemy is concentrating on hill below me. We are outnumbered and outgunned. Taking heavy damage. Can't hold it!"
"Lagerlöf to Eriksen. Delay and retreat."
"Ahonen here. Looks like hover company is going to circle behind them." Indeed, all hovercrafts circle around the hill where concentration of enemy 'Mechs is thickest, and strike at them with all they got.
Meanwhile Adolfsson's Shadow Hawk, followed by platoon of Vedettes, engages enemy force of three Locusts. He takes heavy fire and falls. All Locusts get through, only to end up against Lagerlöf's Catapult and pair of militia Partisan tanks. Heavy APC hovercrafts, armed with Short-Range Missiles, also take part to battle.
"Lagerlöf to Adolfsson. There is Locust approaching your rear!" One hit from Locust's laser would be enough to penetrate Rifleman's weak rear armor and make critical damage. Luckily, Locust's shot went wide off. Lagerlöf's aim was in place as he triggers all his lasers at short range punching through Locust's rear armor. "Took care of him!"
"Adolfsson here. I just nailed Commando! Blew up sky high!"
"Well done. Eriksen, what's your status?"
"Eriksen here. I'm alive and made it out. One Firestarter jumped after me, and landed at middle of infantry. Took only minor damage though."
"Ahonen here. Hate to bring bad news, but there are more 'Mechs coming out of woods. Whole medium company... make it fourteen 'Mechs. Repeat, fourteen 'Mechs. Griffin lance, two Dervish and rest are Wolverines."

To be continued...

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

My order of Mercenary's Handbook arrived to my official home address. My brother was supposed to deliver it to me. He didn't

So I bought PDF version for $8. Among first pages there is following:
Does that mean I need MechWarrior book too?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

No.

You only need whatever material you have in front of you.

Just make up the rest and have fun.

And no, I'm not kidding.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

Matti two things:

Please put breaks between your paragraphs.

And second, you don't need anything else, other then your own ideas and imagination.

If you want purple painted mechs, then go for it. Nothing in the books will tell you that you can't do something, you are the GM thus what happens is of your own making.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]

The Mercenaries Handbooks and the Field Manuals were primarily intended to suppliment the Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG books that were contemporary.

That being said, while it was intended that the unit commander and a certain number of the supporting cast be player characters (hence created in the RPG) it was possible to use the BattleTech Skills rather than a real character as the commander and supporting cast.

If you desire to used the more in depth Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG characters as the basis of your merc unit, here are the Merc Books and the corrosponding edition of Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG.

Mercenaries Handbook was a 1st Edition suppliment

Mercenaries Handbook 3055 was a 2nd Edition suppliment

FM: Mercenaries was a 2nd Edition suppliment

FM: Mercenaries Revised is a 3rd Edition suppliment

Phew! Pulled it finally through! My 'Mechs were reduced to five, but at least they are the best ones. As Darth Tutty's heavy 'Mechs were closing to range, we agreed to end game 6 turns earlier. Otherwise I wouldn't had have left to form up merc unit, and we would had needed to start it all over again

I completed the story and you can read it in other topic: Lagerlöf's Grenadiers. We had some roleplay going on. Stinger lost leg and I ejected it. I moved APC to pick up MechWarrior, and it did, but APC got disabled. I moved other APC over disabled one and declared that MW changes APC. Then I moved APC to my home map edge, and in turn 24 I declared that all units on map edge leave and we ended there (I didn't want spend another turn hitting Flee and Done buttons). Of course MegaMek kept the MW inside disabled APC which was eventually destroyed.

What next? I'll come up with story where Lagerlöf tells his people that they'll go to Galatea and sign up as mercenaries (as I've outlined earlier). I also need work out something about their support assets.

Four civilian Unions with mostly empty 'Mech bays, but cargo bays full of 'Mech spare parts and other related stuff. JumpShip's skipper takes large piece of it for travel payment, but not all. So Lagerlöf gets some of them along with some techs of the original DCMS unit that agree to go with him. In Galatea Lagerlöf will trade some of his share of parts for money. What would be plausible numbers for this stuff?

All 'Mechs will be repaired while in transit. Speaking about which, SHD-2H's AC/5 took crit in battle. This seems like good chance for modifications. I'd better open new topic for it.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Calculation of unit's reputation is PITA. Mercenary's Handbook assumes full companies, but I don't have those. So far TO&E of Lagerlöf's Grenadiers include two 'Mech lances (two 'Mechs are indetermined, and I need name for hireling), two infantry platoons, 12 transport vehicles (APCs and trucks, might need more) and two recovery vehicles (other is heavy).

Reputation of 'Mechs average 2,38. Infantry and vehicles are regular (4/8 and 4/5), thus their reputation is 0 and can only drag average down further. Besides I'm not gonna use light APC (1 ton cargo) and Flatbeds in combat, unless it is salvage operation under fire.

I also need definitions for what Mercenary's Handbook calls green, regular, veteran and elite. RANDOM EXPERIENCE TABLE in BMR Rev. isn't much help, which shows 3/4 available for regular, veteran and elite (also green for Clan MechWarrior).

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Mercenaries Handbook skills relatively easy to work with...

BattleTech Gunnery Skill is 6 minus the number in the Table on Page 34

BattleTech piloting Skill is 7 Minus the number on the Table...

so rolling
3 for gunnery (2 MW/BTRPG1E Gunnery Skill : 6 Target - 2 = +4 roll target) and
3 for Piloting (2 MW/BTRPG1E Piloting Skill : 7 Target -2 = +5 Roll Target) for piloting on the Regular Row gives you a 4 gunner 5 pilot

if the Sum of the BattleTech Pilot and Gunnery Skills is:
Higher than 10, the Warrior is Green
Higher than 7, the Warrior is Regular
Higher than 5, the Warrior is Veteran
if 5 or less, the Warrior is Elite


The Modern Table does a better job of giving you the actual QUALITY of the Warrior... the old tables blended Competence & Calibre of the Soldier

So I bought Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised Edition, and I have headaches with it too. Problem: how (many) are Attribute/Trait/Skill chosen with fast commander generation? Book says something about trait points, but nothing about how they are get. Does anyone know?

Since this topic is about rules now, move to General Discussion could be in order

[edit]
Do you use rank modifiers (enlisted/officer) when determining pay of techs and administrators? What is difference between medic and doctor, and how skill levels affect each?

[another edit]
Dragoon rating calculations assume full companies. How is calculations done when force composition is two 'Mech lances, two infantry platoons, whole lot of APCs (enough to carry all personnel), Flatbed Trucks and 2 Recovery Vehicles?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

i think a medic is doing sort of proffesional first aid(don´t know how to say it better), the crew of an ambulance is medics. the medics keep you alive till you get to a doctor.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.

Matti, A Medic is a person who stabilizes the Patient at the scene, Does minor Surgery, but does not do Major Operations, his only concern is Keeping the Patient alive until he reaches Medical Facilities.

A Doctor can be a medic but a Medic Can not necessarily be a doctor.

_________________
"Yesterday is history; Tomorrow is a Mystery; and today is a gift, which is why it is called a present." Master Uguay Kung fu Panda.

The USN calls them Independent-Duty Corpsman and they are very capable "medics." It takes years to train one, they are usually senior enlisted, but they can take care of just about any battlefield casualty senario. They are about the equivalent of a Nurse Practitioner or Physician's Assistant. And I personally believe they are what you would typically find providing medical care in a merc unit.

_________________
[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-navy.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-seabees.gif[/img]

The Shadows have their own medical unit. On the battlefield, they have a platoon of medics (foot infantry) with a platoon of flatbed trucks that serve as ambulances, and a MASH vehicle as a central casualty collection point.

Off the battlefield, I presume that the Shadows' Excalibur dropship, being a large combined arms transport, has a clinic on board that can handle "routine" casualties. The MacGyver also has a clinic with similar capability. These clinics include doctors that the Shadows pay well for their services. Extreme or unusual cases are sent to Lyran facilities for advanced treatment.

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

What do you pay for them, and how many man-hours they are worth (see SALARY TABLE and SUPPORT PRODUCTIVITY TABLE)? Do you use enlisted/officer modifiers for medical and other non-combatant personnel?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

Matti, I am about to reach through the computer and beat you with all those rulebooks if you don't stop getting caught up in details.

YES, use the officer/enlisted modifiers. In the real military, doctors and medics are paid the same as anyone else of equivalent rank; they just have a different specialty is all. A medic makes the same amount as a truck driver, infantryman, whoever...

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it.

::snicker::

Ok, I'm typing this from under table. I think I'll ignore Doctor in salary table, and use based salary of Medic instead with veteran and officer modifiers. That'll be in charge of medical personnel, all two of of them: paramedics (green level) with enlisted modifier... their pay goes probably under what civilian medical personnel get paid in Finland.

So one doctor with officer rank, and one enlisted medic of average skill and pay. They'll be in charge of ambulance modified APCs, and have driver as second pair of hands. Good or not?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]

From my experience, its usually one medical officer per batallion or command unit + a load of medics (2-3 per unit, usually enlisted men or NCOs) though multiple batallions shared facilities. For a small merc unit, it might be sensible to have maybe one doctor (makes for good RP to have him as a disgraced drunk with a heart of gold) and some of the support staff crosstrained. Drivers don't need to be specially trained. We basically used the same pool of drivers for everything from trucks, to light transport vehicles. to ambulances.

_________________
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/geek.gif[/img]

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here."

Since FM:Mercs Revised don't seem to say anything about MechWarriors, who own their 'Mech, I thought about using rules in Mercenary's Handbook for that purpose.
If you have read topic Lagerlöf's Grenadiers, you know that MechWarrior Zhen Zhou is veteran MechWarrior who owns Clint. This gives her +10% modifier. But what is this supposed to modify? What is relationship between hireling and remuneration? What's the 100% mentioned in the page (see quote)? Why are there negative % in Random Modifier Table (p. 36)?

[edit]
If there is better system, I'd like to hear about it too.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]