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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:17 pm 
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I don't know exactly how this idea came to me, but here it is.

How would the Clans be if Nicky had reversed the importance given to those born naturally and those from the iron wombs?

My rational is this. The Iron Wombs would be used to create vast numbers of the lower castes (laborers and technicians), which would be treated like the Replicants from Blade Runner, In Vitros from Space: Above and Beyond, and the GRELs from Heavy Gear. They would be seen as more expendable and less human as they lack families and of their origin.The only limit on population growth for the Clans would be the production rate of the iron wombs and the materials they required to bring fetuses to term, and the population capacity of the Clan homeworlds.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:51 am 
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Another example of clones as second class citizens could be the AP's from Robert Heinlein's "Friday". The robots from Asimov's "I, Robot" while mechanical instead of biological, also fit into the concept of "mass produced people" as a working class.

Your idea is an interesting one. Let me think on it and I will get back to you; right now I am late for work.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:58 am 
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OK, now that I am at work...

One of the first things that leaps out at my about this idea is the social sustainability of such a society.

If you look at real human cultures with slavery or deep class divisions, at least in the West, their histories are marked by slave revolts, civil unrest and armed uprisings. See: French Revolution, Roman slave revolts, British colonial revolts (including the American Revolution) and many others. In those cases, the societies in question eventually weakened, due in part to their internal class divisions, and fell apart.

There are real caste-driven or class-driven societies that have survived for hundreds or even thousands of years, such as India, Japan and others. In those societies, the class gap problem is (partly) overcome by social programming. In such societies, children are taught from birth, "This is your place in life, and you will stay in it." That message is reinforced by various means, including religion, education (or lack thereof) and appeals to (fiddler) "TRADITION!" (/fiddler), among others. I imagine that the Clans must use similar methods, whether in canon or in your "reversed" version.

Work interruption...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:38 pm 
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The problem, I think, with your premise is that it is the eugenics aspect, more than the iron womb, that sets the Truebirth warrior caste apart. They are special because they were geneticly tailored to be so. I'd think that you could have a "truebirth" in every sense that was conceived as canon truebirths are but the embyros implanted in a woman's womb for a natural pregnancy and birth. The problem, I'm thinking is that that puts the woman out of action for a year or so, which in such an achievement-driven society, would be unacceptable, while the iron womb allows the mother to simply keep on fighting.

Of course there is no reason that lower castes couldn't use iron wombs except that at least initially such resources were limited and not to be wasted on the lower castes. By the time that is no longer a constraint, custom had probably come to dictate that only truebirth warriors came from iron wombs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
I'd think that you could have a "truebirth" in every sense that was conceived as canon truebirths are but the embyros implanted in a woman's womb for a natural pregnancy and birth. The problem, I'm thinking is that that puts the woman out of action for a year or so, which in such an achievement-driven society, would be unacceptable, while the iron womb allows the mother to simply keep on fighting.
Simple solution: Birthmother (or birther) caste.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:17 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd think that you could have a "truebirth" in every sense that was conceived as canon truebirths are but the embyros implanted in a woman's womb for a natural pregnancy and birth. The problem, I'm thinking is that that puts the woman out of action for a year or so, which in such an achievement-driven society, would be unacceptable, while the iron womb allows the mother to simply keep on fighting.
Simple solution: Birthmother (or birther) caste.
Plus, you could enhance their genes to test which combinations are passed through the offspring. And it opens a possibility of engineering more efficient mitochrondria to pass them on maternally.


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