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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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in the past we have seen that new antagonists apeared that brought new action, first the clans, then the blakist jihadists.
my idea is to bring a new fraction into play that is not new at all.

idea: around 2600 the first lord of the SL decides that the reserves hidden in brian caches were not enough, as the noble houses became more and more powerfull an independent and secret source of military power was needed. so a fleet of JS loades with a lot of DS was sent to a group of systems far in the periphery, that seemed suited for the project.
from all maps and files the systems in question were either erased, or modified to apear as unhabitable and economically uninteresting.
the orders of "operation reserve" were:
1.set up a base that can sustain itself
2. do not seek contakt with the SL, keep hidden
3. set up the factorys transported in the fleet and produce weapons and equipment
4. man the weapons and weaponsystems to form a strong army
5. keep ready in case the first lord will call for your help

following this orders the factorys started to produce one RCT every year, together with transports and warship escorts starting in 2612.
they were able to man that forces from 2615 onwards, from this time on the birthrate allowed to draft enough men.
they kept producing their RCTs till they were rediscovered in 3163.
at this time they had a full 500 RCT complete and operational (some units were lost due to tear and wear)
how would they react learning that the SL was long gone? i guess they would use their power to try and reinstall it...

how would the inner sphere react? how the "successor-states"?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:48 am 
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Major
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500 years later? I reckon by then they'd have ripped themselves to shreds and likely formed their own miniature "Outer Sphere", if you will. Probably one or two planet mini empires.

You are basically describing the Clans, after all. They didn't exile themselves under the premise that they would be reformed into 20 distinct factions at some later time. They left as the Star League, and, at the time, fully expected to return as the Star League.

But we all saw how well that went.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:36 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
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well the clans resp. kerensky left because of the amaris ursurper incident.
my version has strong similaritys, but also a few differences.
i do not recall the clans taking complete factorys with them.
in my version they KNOW/are convinced that the SL still exists and therefore have something to be loyal to.
the clans knew that the question who would be next first lord would probably be unsolvable,
so, when the SL was no longer existant, to whom should they be loyal?
this difference seems to be trivial at first glance, but IMHO it would make a real difference.

actually when a strong force sets off into the perifery there are many possible outcomes
1 they could be destroyed ba civil wars (almost happend to the clans)
2 they could return stronger some time later
3 they could develop a stable society, in my version they are not organized by the military leader of the SL in a rather short time, but by the first lord him/herself, with a stable society in mind. might work or not.

or when 3 such expeditions are made one worked out, one ended in civil war, and one just never managed to produce significant amounts of products and stayed an agrarian society that has forgotten its task in the meantime.

i had thought about other questions to come up after my rather simple draft of a rather complex idea...although ur question is of importance of course.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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a few issues with this alternative history:

-technology:
the force would only have lvl 1 tech, while the inner sphere would develop, it is neccessary to do R+D to get something better

-leadership:
someone reliable would have to be leading the new state, i think some relative to the house cameron might be doing well.
sideeffect: a surviving cameron might justfully demand the throne of the starleage when he returns later.

-organisation:
i would not use standard organisation, i envision a RCT made from
2 mech regiments, (4 light companys, 5 medium companys , 6 heavy companys and 3 assault companys)
3 armored regiments,
4 infantry regiments,
1 Aerospace regiment,
one artillery regiment, (one classic battalion, two assault battalions armed with STUG-like vees)
a strong transport unit,
sufficient jumpships and dropships to transport all but the aerospace regiment,
one battleship,
one carrier carrying the ASF,
2 or 3 medium warships,
4 light warships for scouting
and a number of assault dropships.

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Lieutenant General
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Why would this new state *want* to remain loyal to the Star League? Especially after 500-600 years? They would have their own problems to worry about.

Also, if the Star League wanted to create a secret reserve of military power for an emergency, would it be reasonable to go through the trouble of creating a new state so far away in the hinterlands of space that no one else could find them? One would assume that this distance would also make it difficult and inconvenient to call upon them for help in the first place.

I tend to agree with MK here... you've basically described the clans. Maybe if you relooked at this as a Star League colonization effort that branched off into its own, that would work. I hope my feedback doesn't seem too critical, but I'm just not feeling the basic premise here.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:35 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
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well i know its looking like the clans II(now better and with cookies).
in fact the history of the inner spere is rather repetitive with several succsesion wars,
i guess the clans as well as the jihad have been introduced to get something new
instead of creating succsesion war number 5,6,7...u get the point.
my line of thought goes like this(and this way i developed the idea):

the first lord recognizes that the noble houses get more and more powerfull,
they have the power to remove the entire SL or render it a state of marionettes if they choose to.
so the 1. choice would be to build more weapons, but that would not work, as the house-lords would react by building more weapons themselves.
so the 2. choice would be to hide away the weapons in brian caches etc, but that would not work, as the house lords probably would notice that there is a dicrepancy between the number of mechs built, and the number taken into the SL-units.
so the only way to get the upper hand seems to create a new secret production capacity that is hidden from the house lords and to create a secret reserve army.
to hide it away from the house lords means it has to be hidden outside of their territory i.e. in the perifery.

a stable society is difficult to create, but not impossible IMHO.
loyalty is a difficult issue, in fact it might be that no effort to contact the SL is done because the ruling duke cameron wants to rule his little realm without interference.
however when he hears that house cameron is eradicated in the inner sphere, and recognises HE is the legitimate first lord his loyalty for the SL would be somewhat reborn....

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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another problem would be that the hidden starleague would base their whole technology on completely outdated technology.
in some cases they would find solutions quite similar to what we already know from the clans or later SL developments, but its also quite likely the would find some completely different solutions.
a few ideas:
- inner structure made from carbon fibre reinforced kevlar, weight 333 Kg per 10tons of mechweight
- armor based on arachnid(TM) ( artificial spider silk) carying ceramic plates, giving 25% more protection than standard armor
(ferro fibrous is known before 2600, as it was invented in the terran hegemony in 2571)
-longer range lasers that have enhanced focussing systems, sacrificing strength for range, a RE(range enhanced)LL would do 6 points of damage to about twice the range, the system can be disingaged.

-"aiming lasers" that produce a continous laser beam to show where a laser is aiming, the mechpilot sees if he is aiming correctly and pulls the trigger whenever the red dot is where he wants to shoot(works only with lasers, maybe on short distances with other weapons) three effects:
1. a targeting computer is emulated by a system weighing about 1 Kg per laser it is attached to
2. when the to hit roll is more than 2 points to low the mechpilot did not manage to put the red dot to target, no firing the laser in this round, no heat buildup
3. called shots are made much easier. when the roll is to far of for a called shot the pilot can decide if he wants to fire where the red dot is.
the lasers used are in invisible ranges of light, likely UV, so there is no visible red dot.

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:36 pm 
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Captain
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 8:00 pm
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Location: Texas! Nope, Arkansas now.
If these guys were out there for the purpose of saving the Star League from destruction, then when Amaris took Terra they would have come a running for the fight. And after the fight they would have left in the Exodus, which would have gone to their world instead of to where it did.

The two main ideas, the secret world whose only job is to SAVE the Star League from destruction. And the idea of them going out there and cutting off all contact with home... are not compatible. The only way they could know the Star League needed saving is to STAY IN CONTACT with Terra. And since carrying out their mission requires them to keep in touch and know what is happening in the Hegemony... see the first paragraph.

And for them to know what happened and then NOT come running with all they had right THEN... they would have to betray their mission and turn against their purpose and no longer be any part of the Star League or have any yen to saving/rebuilding it. Hence they would have no reason to come back as an invasion fleet. And in terms of trade, over a voyage so far away it would be at least a year one way if not longer, they would not have much reason to do that either since they went out there with all they needed by way of manufacturing and industry to begin with.

Now, on the other hand. If these people were a bunch of Maine Lobstermen who wanted to go somewhere so far away their ancient Lobster culture could be saved from all the new age influences, and kids not going to church enough, and Lobster fishing being replaced landbased Lobster factory farms, and preserved intact. Well then, some rich Maine residents with influence might have put together a huge expedition to go waaaaay out there and build a Star League, fully self sufficient world, with the Maine Lobster colonists as their base population and established this world a hundred years before Stefan Amaris was born...

So they set out with their fleet, some RCTs, some factories, all the makings of a nice big Castle Brian, some good fire and brimstone preachers, plenty of fishing gear and a fleet of Lobster boats. Voyaging a few thousand light years out there, led by a member of the Cameron family, the first governor of New Maine, and built themselves a world and have grown and prospered and built factories, and farms, and lots of military equipment, and scientifically bred some truly fantastic Lobsters all these years.

Remember in Battletech, there is little of "American" cultures in the Inner Sphere, most of the "American" worlds were in the Terran Hegemony and got pretty much wiped out along with most of the people on them. A little piece of American culture waaay out there on its own all these years could be neat in the way that Comachos Cabolleros of the Southwestern worlds or the Trinity are neat.

So they left the Inner Sphere, went out, and built a new home and now forgotten by all save perhaps a small, well hidden underground anti-blake movement in Maine, who remember the expedition, and alll these years have waited and hoped and prayed for "The Return".

And so the Lobster Republic is back in town, sending a huge expedition force back along the ancient line of HPGs that once kept them in touch with their ancestral home. They knew the Star League died... But since putting together a fleet to come and fight would have taken at least a year, and the voyage at least a year, and since when Amaris took over he wiped up the HPG stations and it took a few years for them to even hear about what all had happened and they knew it was way too late for their division or two of troops to be able to save anything... they didn't come back.

They just moved on, and lived, and built, and grew stronger until the year came that a charismatic young fire and brimstone preacher or a Cameron descendant (Or Both) started up a movement to go back and kick somebody's butt and while they're at it, give those folks that still dwell in Maine a chance to get out of there and come live in the Lobster Republic.

And now here they are, big, bad, with Red Mechs and tanks and space fighters and warships painted Red and proudly showing the Claw, the symbol of the Lobster Republic. They don't think mcu of the Houses that looted and burned the Hegemony's corpse, no they don't. And them Clanners, that bunch is lower than a Louisiana crawfish. And the Word of Blake, who have banned all Lobster, crab, and shrimp fishing on Terra in the name of the "environment"... words don't describe how the warriors of New Maine and the Lobster Republic feel about those WOBs.

Beware the Claws of the Righteous. :lam: + :fishing: = :end:


:D

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Last edited by Gunslinger Patch on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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Posts: 3183
that is an interesting variation.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Captain
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 8:00 pm
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Location: Texas! Nope, Arkansas now.
I just ran with it. hehe.

And yes, there would have to be fire and brimstone preachers of some sort. Can't have a jihad without em.

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Lyran-ism: You have two cows. One starts a business and becomes insanely rich. The other buys rank in your military and subsequently loses three assault regiments and two worlds to a band of pirates in Locusts.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
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a charismatic political leader would also do it. someone who could talk like fidel castro.(i do not understand a word he says, and do not know if there is anything in his words i agree to, just the way he talks).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Private First Class
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 18
if it was set up as more of a advanced RandD as well as production center.
repeaters hpgs (stealthed) can keep tabs on IS and there were alot of volunteers joining the fight vs armarius(sp) and the exodus would just piss them off. several units where unaccounted for after the exodus too :)

just my 2 cents


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Private
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:22 am
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What if the group were not Star League troops? This is an idea i had been kicking around for awhile. What if the group was from the RWR, centered around the Rift Republican Army that chose not to fight but to flee but Amaris and the Star League. They would see the need for secrecy. They could have also left people in positions (Asroc) to continue monitoring the Star League and the rest of the IS. They could have had people infiltrate the SDLF, BSLA, and a host of other organizations funneling information, equipment and supplies to the group especially during the fall of the Star League where they could hide all their work under the disguise of Amaris takeover of the Hegemony.


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