Welcome to the HeavyMetalPro Forums

It is currently Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:24 pm

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Let's Discuss Writing
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:04 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
I was doing research for the next stage of my fiction and decided to tackle a few issues that had been lurking in the back of mind.

For those familiar with my fiction, I usually feature a location/date/time indication to start a story with similar, abbreviated versions to illustrate the passage of time:
Galaport
Galatea
Federated Commonwealth
January 25, 3039, 0315 Hours

The above is fine until you realize that not every planet is an exact copy of Earth. Galatea, for example, as described in the Inner Sphere Atlas:
System Name: Galatea
Coordinates: -54.25, 34.43
Star Type: F8II
Position in System: 6
Time to Jump Point: 12.01 days
Recharging Station: Zenith
ComStar Facility Class: A
Population: 556,976,000
Percentage and Level of Native Life: Mammals

What I am getting at is time –While I am basing the measure of time on Terran Standard, such as GMT, UTC or Zulu time for the sake of familiarization, I must ask:

How would you measure time on a world that does not have a 24 hour rotation?

How would you measure time with a planet that does not revolve around its sun in 365 days?

While it may seem trivial, such things as standard travel time to jump points, birth days, seasons, holidays, work schedules, harvest operations, and countless, seemingly mundane occurrences that make up day to day living.

Since the Battletech Universe rarely delves into such details for each planet, it had occurred to me while establishing a timeline for Mohammed Bey’s school terms:
How would schedules differ when the conditions between planets might differ radically? Would you really need a winter recess on a desert world? Would every school in a realm really synchronize its schedule to Terra’s fall or spring seasons?

How would you handle the measure of time and schedules on a planet with a 37-hour day and a 423-day year?

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:30 pm 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
that is an interesting question, IMHO u should ask on how settlers on such a world would cope with the situation.
in the above mentioned example it might be possible to have a 4 day week, wich would be 20 hours shorter than earth week, or 5 day week wich would be 17 hours longer than earth week, or an alternating shedule of a 4- and a 5- day week wich would get u a timeframe that is just 3 hours off earth, in that double week u would fit in 14 days to get to a usuall working shedule.
the long year is a bit more complex: 423 can be divided by 9, giving 47 double weeks. a school term should be 26 double weeks to match earth standard, or you create a school system that is based on local year-lengths, german based settlers might give their pupils "abitur", wich needs 13 years in germany, after 7 "years" of school. 7.2 years would match 13 earth years.

to adapt to different day length work might be done under artificial light matching 24 hour days.( unless a planet is so close to earth u can adapt)

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:19 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
after having thought about the problem i see another perspective of this: unless the data of a world are given( given universe like BT) YOU are the author. in your world you are GOD.
so to keep reader confusion and writing difficulty at a minimum stay close enough to earth standards that the difference could be mostly ignored. mentioning things like "person felt it hard to adapt to worlds 25 hour days" gives the world a certain alien feeling, but reader and writer can mostly write things as if there is no difference.

once you choose a world to be really different( or the world is already being described as different) u are haveing a whole bunch of problems.
in general just imagine how people would cope with it if it was for real. you are the legislation, you are the settlers, you are the outworld visitor that has to adapt. what would you do if it was for real?

to keep confusion at a minimum it seems to be writers in general are writing "standard-" in front of terms to show they are reffering to earth standard. you should use the same method to show when things refer to the standard of the world "he had slept 13 galathea-hours wich is just about 7 standard-hours".

maybe ill write a bit more about world difference when i have the time at the weekend(next year ;) )

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:45 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 2198
Novel Decision at Thunder Rift is one of the rare examples that has very detailed information about given planet: Trell I (Trellwan). It was interesting to read, but even that didn't detail holidays.

Non-BT (light) novel, Counting the Cost (part of The Complete Hammer's Slammers Volume 2), goes to some details about calendars and holidays. Quote from memory: "Should easter here be by the Earth's calendar or by the local calendar?" That become huge political issue and the end got messy when mercenaries started shooting back. But nothing I've read gives such extensive details of alien world like novel Dune, classic scifi masterpiece.

Interesting questions, but I'm not sure should all be accounted for by everyone everytime.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]


Last edited by Matti on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:06 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Thank you for all your considerations.

While the bulk of my writing is situated in the DC I have already looked into how the Combine (and eventually the other Houses) would set their House calendar.

I base the DC calendar on the current Japanese Imperial calendar: By reigning Emperor.
Example:
Emperor Mutsuhito - 1868 to 1912 - Meiji Era: enlightened rule
Emperor Yoshihito - 1912 to 1926 - Taisho Era: great righteousness
Emperor Hirohito - 1926 to 1989 - Showa Era: enlightened peace/harmony
Emperor Akihito - 1989 to present - Heisei Era: peace everywhere

Draconis Combine:
Hohiro I - 2963 to 3004 - Kenpei Era: Unity
Takashi - 3004 to 3054 - Ryoku Era: Strength
Theodore - 3054 to 3070 - Kaishin Era: Reformation
Hohiro II - 3070 to ???? -

In the DC it would be accurate to say "I graduated from the academy during Ryoku 32 (3036)" but it would be bad form to refer to an era before the Coordinator dies so the term Takashi 32 would be preferred if he were still alive.

A DC rifle put into mass production in 3040 could be listed as a Rifle, Type 36.

How would the other Houses set their own calendars?

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:44 pm 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
the said DC rifle would rather be named rifle type 36T/36R because it would be hard to tell it apart from rifles of another reign, so a letter for the name/era would be needed, as weapons might not be scrapped for a long time, even the outdated rifle can kill an oponent.

remember how many different types of weapons were used in WWII, then the japanese only used modern weapons from 3 eras( they did not have any before meiji-era). in your ryoku era, counting about 25 years per era you have about 42 eras to be confused with each other.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:15 am 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Quote:
the said DC rifle would rather be named rifle type 36T/36R because it would be hard to tell it apart from rifles of another reign, so a letter for the name/era would be needed, as weapons might not be scrapped for a long time, even the outdated rifle can kill an oponent.

remember how many different types of weapons were used in WWII, then the japanese only used modern weapons from 3 eras( they did not have any before meiji-era). in your ryoku era, counting about 25 years per era you have about 42 eras to be confused with each other.
I see your point, the Japanese Imperial Year also includes linear count -The WW2 Type 92 Heavy Machinegun was so named because it entered service in Japanese Imperial Year 2592 (1932). The Type 36 Rifle could just as well be designated the Type 21 (Combine Year 721 = 3040). The DCMS could use any combination of item designations to prevent confusing duplication as did the Japanese.
The more recent Japanese Howa Type 89 Assault Rifle was adopted in 1989, reflecting a change from traditional equipment designations.

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:15 am 
Offline
Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10855
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
Very interesting and gives a nice insight into things. Very helpful as well.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/mil-army.gif[/img]


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:12 am 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Weights and Measures

While the game standards are all converted to metrics, even today not every country has fully adopted the Metric System.

Would there still be holdouts using Imperial units of weight and measure in the BT universe?

Driving

While most BT universe worlds appear to possess a single, monolithic government, there are a handful composed of enclaves or regions of varied ethnicities. While I haven't bothered to point out the details of traveling on a world in my fiction, there would be differences.

An example would be on the Azami World of Dabih, which I model the urban areas after a combination of Algieria and the French Riviera. If you drive on Dabih you'll be driving on the right-hand side ofthe road while on Luthien, which has more of a Japanese influence, you would be driving on the left-hand side.

A Combine world like Nashira, which was a system shared by the Draconis Combine and the Terran Hegemony, might still have vehicles driving on the right-hand side ofthe world in the regions that once belonged to the TH while in the areas administered by the DC the vehicles might be driving on the left-hand side. This is one detail that was pointed out in one of my "Travels With Uncle Ahmed" stories but edited out due to length.

Every once in awhile I do sit back and think about what everyday living for the various socio-economic classes usually not addressed by mainstream BT literature.

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:02 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
on driving: on earth the different driving has developed because when the idea of creating rules on driving on the right/left side has evolved AFTER the planet was divided into realms.

on any newlysettled planet the people that land there first would determin where to drive. and as the practical problems of driving on different sides are already known i suppose everybody arriving later will adapt.

on weights/measures: same as above, when a new state is founded on a planet it will be long after the advantages of standard measures have been found out, so i suppose for industry and trade metric is used universal, in the litteral sense of the word.
the exeption might be religion, where the rules of the religion might give rules in antique measures, like "sacrifice one ounce of whatnot".
in language some of the old words for measures would survive, in germany the word pfund(pound) is still used, but in a metric way: it means 500 grams/ 1/2 Kilogram. same way the word gallon could be used by some meaning 4 litres.
nautical the nautical mile could survive, as well as the speedmeasuring in knots.
in sports its thinkable that the mile is still run in 3060.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:22 pm 
Offline
Private First Class
Private First Class

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 18
little late in this convo but my 2 cents :)

as for travel time from jump points , i would say they are standardized as earth days, as that would be standard when exodis(sp) was done and the later star league used.

for planets unless strong reason they would conform to locale time for there own time tables if it was any large difference. Honor harrington series deals wih this to some extent, one planet has 24 mornal hours and the extra 1plus minutes are called extra that happen at midnight - extra -12:01 am

driveing would be dependant more on where settlers where from as they tend to follow there home customs :)
again just my 2 cents


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:16 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Quote:
little late in this convo but my 2 cents :)
It is never too late as for those who write fiction as these are details about which most people tend to ignore, such as how a regiment of soldiers would keep out of trouble while cooped up in dropships for over a month on the way to battle.

As writer I consider battle sequences as secondary to the story and characters:
Quote:
From The Academy- First Year (work in progress)

1430 Hours

“Cadets in this line will be measured for uniforms.” The supply staff was made up of middle aged and elderly men and women who mechanically executed their jobs with quiet efficiency.

Nishimura sniffed and stretched as he took his place in the queue. After he confirmed his admission he stood in line to call his parents to give them the good news then he stood in line to pay his tuition then stood in line to complete his registration then stood in line to obtain his identification. After he was handed his data card Nishimura was issued a packet that included a list of tasks to complete before the new cadet could report to his assigned billet. He looked over the page that included an inventory list of what he’d be issued and tried to imagine how he would pack it all into the backpack and kit bag he’d receive without wrinkling the dress uniform too badly.

“Have you gotten a look at any of the women yet?”

Nishimura turned around to see who had just whispered in his ear and had to take a step back. The person who addressed him was undoubtedly European. The Draconis Combine was made up of various ethnic groups and a variety of Terra’s races would be expected at an academy like Sun Tzu. Still, Marcus had grown up in the city of Ogawa where the vast majority of the residents are still of Japanese descent and the presence of gaijin still made him somewhat uncomfortable.

The stranger bowed, “Sandström Samuli.”

“Nishimura Marcus.” He bowed in return then shrugged. “Er, I really haven’t had time to take a look.”

Sandström nodded, “I have not had time for a complete reconnaissance sweep of the facilities but I figure between twenty and thirty percent of the students here are female.”

“Ah, you are from Rasalhague.”

The cadet held up a hand, “No, I am a loyal Draconis Combine citizen…and not one of those Swedish bastards, either.” He struck a bold pose, shoulders back with his hands on his hips. “I am a Finn.”

Nishimura had to smile.

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:06 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 2198
Quote:
The cadet held up a hand, “No, I am a loyal Draconis Combine citizen…and not one of those Swedish bastards, either.” He struck a bold pose, shoulders back with his hands on his hips. “I am a Finn.”

Nishimura had to smile.
That made me laugh. Compliments from Finland! :D

Find more finnish surname though. Sandström sounds closer to swedish he claims not to be.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:57 pm 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
why do you not make a suggestion? u should be able to give a few finish surnames.
(hint: u might be able to get immortality by giving your own name as example ;) )

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:55 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Quote:
Quote:
The cadet held up a hand, “No, I am a loyal Draconis Combine citizen…and not one of those Swedish bastards, either.” He struck a bold pose, shoulders back with his hands on his hips. “I am a Finn.”

Nishimura had to smile.
That made me laugh. Compliments from Finland! :D

Find more finnish surname though. Sandström sounds closer to swedish he claims not to be.
The name is actually from a Finnish role player -I'll have to ask about its origins, although there are plenty of examples of natives who inherit foreign names through intermarriage (myself included) or due to colonial influence.
My cousin's Mama-san (nanny) was given a book of European names while attending kindergarten and ordered to choose a name to replace her Japanese given name- She was officially known as Beatrice for the rest of her life.

In the Draconis Combine it isn't surprising that nonjapanese citizens choose to change their surnames to more conventional, Japanese names, such as Tetsuhara, in order to fit in.

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:16 am 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 2198
Quote:
My cousin's Mama-san (nanny) was given a book of European names while attending kindergarten and ordered to choose a name to replace her Japanese given name- She was officially known as Beatrice for the rest of her life.

In the Draconis Combine it isn't surprising that nonjapanese citizens choose to change their surnames to more conventional, Japanese names, such as Tetsuhara, in order to fit in.
Good point. I recall couple finns who have changed their names (temporarily or otherwise) for that reason:
Lauri Törni = Larry Thorne
Jyrki Järvilehto = J.J. Lehto

I don't recall any finnish NHL players who'd have done that though. Teemu Selänne and Jari Kurri don't have alternative american names, right?

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:48 am 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:05 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: Kingdom of Hawaii
Quote:
Teemu Selänne and Jari Kurri don't have alternative american names, right?
Name changes in order to conform isn't as prevalent in America as it was when my cousin's Mama-san was in school although I had friends work for companies that suggested that they change their "ethnic" (meaning "foreign") sounding names to "American" names.

American sports seems to be an exception -Players from various countries are looked upon very favorably as an example of American opportunity.

_________________
[i]And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.[/i] from The Koran, 33rd Sura- The Clans


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:23 am 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 2198
Quote:
Find more finnish surname though. Sandström sounds closer to swedish he claims not to be.
Something I have overlooked here: Finland has two primary languages where other is swedish. Here are cities and towns where most people speak swedish. That also means swedish names. Sandström could well be in this category, though his pride of his finnish heritage might suggest otherwise.

_________________
[i]You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.[/i]

[url=http://www.mekwars.org][u]MekWars[/u][/url]


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:37 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
a single swede in the male line of ancestors might explain it, but in that case we might see a swedish surname with a finn first name, like "matti sandström"
i think in the battletech universe there should be a lot of name-combinations that combine names of different origin, where the surname might signal "im finn" and the firstname might say " im a loyal citizen" with an added name for religious orientation. "akira kaurismaki singh" would be a sikh with finn roots who is a citizen of the combine(or at least thats what the name suggests).

and we might see a lot of creative names like la-ia(pronounce: ladashia) 2wok or 4rrest.

authors have to decide either to stick to names that might be found on earth now, or be creative. in most cases the sci-fi environment means that its most realistic to have a mix of all sorts of names.

btw: what was the witches name in men in tights? in the german version her name is latrine(privy) and the name she changed was scheisshaus(outhouse)(litterally means shithouse).

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:03 am 
Offline
Antisocial General
Antisocial General

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:35 am
Posts: 7883
Location: MLC, Lyran Alliance.
We have talked about language drift before. Over a thousand years into the future, over thousands of worlds with trillions of people, languages will have evolved. Very few languages on Earth today even remotely resemble what they did a thousand years ago; an "English" speaking native of the Battletech future likely would find this conversation archaic, if not incomprehensible. And with that evolution of language, and other accompanying cultural changes, names will evolve as well. For us to write with today's names, languages, national cultures, religions and so forth simply is a matter of convenience, for both author and reader.

On the religious front, the canon has explored futuristic religion a bit with the Omniss, the Blakists, and to some extent the Clans as well.

I myself have tried to explore language and culture and religious drift a bit in my Astral Republic, and will do so further in future works, when I get around to them. WTB more hours in the day, PST...

_________________
Be careful what you wish for. I might let you have it. :evil:


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:16 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3183
it is correct that language will develop, but the next thousand years will bring less development by far.
in the past 1000 y. most people were illiterate, now most are literate, so we can read documents of our ancestors and their language will influence us, stabilizing language to some extent.
it has been said that the german bible by martin lutter defined german language, wich practically did not exist before, he basically orientated on what i think is best described as "office-saxonian". before that several dialects were spoken in germany that could be called different languages. after that there was something to orientate upon towards a common language. nowadays we can see television and the movies take influence, so we can watch how people talked decades ago, classical movies wich are repeated in television so we almost know them by heart influence us. in most of the past 1000 years people were rarely leaving their villages, in most of the coming 1000 years people will not need to leave "their villages" to encounter people from thousands of miles away. all english speaking people all over the world are influenced by cecil b. de mille, george lucas, peter jackson and joanne k rowling, even sitting in their basements at their computers and televisions, nearly never leaving home. so unlike our ancestors we are having that influence from the ancestors from decades ago wich we can listen to, even when they are long gone. this will form languages that will be more uniform, as we all are influenced by the same movies and stories and tv series, and it will develop less fast as the same series and movies will still be repeated for decades.
i believe in a thousand years someone watching a copy from "ben hur" or "quo vadis", or reading a copy of harry potter will have less problems of understanding than we have reading shakespeare.who lived considerably less than a thousand years ago. language will still develop, but much slower. the modification of vowels for example, wich tend to change in a specific direction, will not happen when we can read and listen to our ancestors, seeing and hearing how they pronounced words.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
American English Language Pack © Maël Soucaze