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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:51 pm 
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Colonel
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:22 pm
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Just fooling around ...................taking a break from building my Atlas/Spider diorama.

Don't mind me, I'm always putting something together. :o :lol: :o

I had this mech laying around without any arms........... I think its a Grand Titan ??

Very easy to remedy, just a quick grab into the DA toy junkbox for some "slicing and dicing"

Now it seems to be a larger version of the Warhammer. So its quite easy to call this one a War Titan. Even the jumppack came from a Warhammer mini, how funny :lol:

It currently has only a spray primer coat called "Hammered Steel" in place.
Image


Last edited by je from vegas on Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:25 am 
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Major General
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:24 pm
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Yes, the body appears to be a Grand Titan.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:00 pm 
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Lieutenant General
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:00 pm
Posts: 595
This thing just screams double gause (Or HGRs if you can manage it) to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:02 pm 
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General Know it All
General Know it All

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Stafford , England
Quote:
This thing just screams double gause (Or HGRs if you can manage it) to me.
The HGR's would have to be Torso mounted so maybe in the 'intakes' of the WH40K Jump Pack ?,

And I really like the mini Great Job. :yay: :thumbsup:

Dave.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:22 pm 
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Lieutenant General
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:00 pm
Posts: 595
Couldn't you split the HGR between arms and torsos (not that I'd like that practice)?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:30 pm 
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Highly Overrated
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 am
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
No, HGRs can't split to arms even. Something about the recoil, but honestly it's a balance issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:19 pm 
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Colonel
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 427
Nope, According to the rules a HGR can ONLY be in the torsos.

Pretty stupid if you ask me.......... Put a slide recoil dampener on each arm like a 75mm howitzer and that should take care of it.............


I guess this will have to be a dual Gauss Rifle unit. Working out a paint scheme for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:23 am 
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Precentor Zeta
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:15 am
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Yep, to me it is very strange, why heavy gauss rifle, a magnetic accelerator, has "big recoil", and AC/20 does not have... I know it is a question of game ballance, not physics, but the explanation in the terms of game world sounds strange.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:29 am 
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Highly Overrated
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 am
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
*shrugs*

Maybe because it's still a quarter-ton slug going out one end of the mech? You know how it goes, "for any action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...". :-?

Dunno, I'm no physics major or math wiz, that's for-sure.

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Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 113th Battlemech Regiment
First Federated Commonwealth Corps RCT

"There are no bad regiments; there are only bad colonels" - Napoleon Bonaparte


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:58 pm 
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Colonel
Colonel

Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:22 pm
Posts: 427
The mech designers at "Heavy Lift Concepts" Inc. were in the summer doldrums with very little to do. Several of them took a stroll through the mech park and spied a recently recovered Grand Titan.

The only major structural damage was that both arms had been previously destroyed. All weapons had been disarmed and removed from the frame. The fusion engine and endo steel frame and armor plating were still intact.

Keeping the mech in mind, they continued into the parts recovery warehouses. One of the designers soon located a disgarded bolt-on booster pack . Another found a pair of ER Medium Lasers in the process of being refurbished and almost ready for installation.

A call over to the Heavy Weapons Dept located a pair of Clan "Galaxy Series" Gauss Rifles off a recently aquired Mad Cat MkII.

Disgarding the distinctive Mad Cat MKII armored housing as useless the designers started writing out the Work Orders necessary to transfer all of the disparate parts to their workshop.

2 weeks later a pair of the designers were excitiedly talking with the Construction Mech Division. They were negotiating for a pair of 150mm armored drill housings as the final part of the overall design.

As the project slowly came to a close as the Mech was being built. One of the designers mentioned "It looks like a larger version of a Warhammer"

Quickly the name "WAR TITAN" as a name reference became the project title. The mech is being moved to the Proving Grounds to meet Qualifiying Trials. If the results are succesful, "Heavy Lift Concepts" Inc. has another winner on its hands.

Image
Code:
 BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    WAR TITAN 
Tech:          Mixed Tech  /  3062
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          100 tons
Chassis:       Endo Steel (IS)
Power Plant:   400 LTV XL Fusion (IS)
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets:     4 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      
  2 Gauss Rifles (C)
  2 ER Medium Lasers(IS)
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    WAR TITAN 
Mass:          100 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  152 pts Endo Steel (IS)      14      5.00
 (Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 RA, 3 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine:        400 XL Fusion                12     26.50
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:   6
   Jumping MP:   4
Heat Sinks:     10 Double (IS) [20]          0       .00
Gyro:                                        4      4.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA             12       .00
Armor Factor:  307 (IS)                      0     19.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             31         46      
   Center Torso (Rear):                 16      
   L/R Side Torso:           21      32/32      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):            10/10      
   L/R Arm:                  17      34/34      
   L/R Leg:                  21      42/42      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Gauss Rifle (C)        RA      1   32     10     16.00
  (Ammo Locations: 2 LA, 2 RA)
1 Gauss Rifle (C)        LA      1           6     12.00
1 ER Medium Laser  (IS)  RT      5           1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser  (IS)  LT      5           1      1.00
4 Standard Jump Jets:                        4      8.00
 (Jump Jet Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         12          69     96.00
Crits & Tons Left:                           9      4.00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        28,363,334 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2,409
Cost per BV:       11,773.9
Weapon Value:      3,309 / 3,309 (Ratio = 1.37 / 1.37)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 30;  MRDmg = 25;  LRDmg = 14
BattleForce2:      MP: 4J,  Armor/Structure: 8/4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 5/4/3,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MA;  Point Value: 24


Last edited by je from vegas on Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:45 pm 
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Highly Overrated
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 906
Location: Philadelphia, PA
WHOA. Looks much better when painted (or maybe I just lack the imagination to appreciate it in flatblack *shrugs*). :o

_________________
Major Dane "GECKO" Obelcz
Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 113th Battlemech Regiment
First Federated Commonwealth Corps RCT

"There are no bad regiments; there are only bad colonels" - Napoleon Bonaparte


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:09 pm 
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General Know it All
General Know it All

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Stafford , England
Quote:
WHOA. Looks much better when painted (or maybe I just lack the imagination to appreciate it in flatblack *shrugs*). :o
I totally Agree, It Rocks !! :2thumbsup: I like the stats & good work on the fluff.
Dave. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:36 am 
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Loki
Loki

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 11444
Location: Minnesnowta
Quote:
Yep, to me it is very strange, why heavy gauss rifle, a magnetic accelerator, has "big recoil", and AC/20 does not have... I know it is a question of game ballance, not physics, but the explanation in the terms of game world sounds strange.
Because a heavy gauss fires a single shell and the AC/20 fires a STREAM of shells. Each shot doesn't generate as much recoil.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:38 am 
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Loki
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:00 pm
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Location: Minnesnowta
Very very impressive.

I still have the Grand Titan that I painted up as Optimus Prime...

hehehe

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:37 pm 
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Major General
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:25 pm
Posts: 827
Location: Massachusetts
Do not think you are right, Medron. I am hardly a firearms expert, but I do know some physics. Momentum--the quantity at hand here--is mass*velocity. So, a quarter-ton gauss slug going at some velocity has a large amount of momentum.
An individual AC-20 slug also has momentum, but less. However, the stream of shells put together do add up...
for example, though this is not the case...one quarter ton slug going at mach 1 has the same momentum as two eighth ton bullets going mach 1. It does add up.

Why then, the recoil rule? Balance, more or less. But I can think of several reasons why it might be true.

1. A gauss slug is a chunk of very fast moving metal. Impact--in other words, momentum--is the only way it has to cause harm. AC-20 shells, OTOH, almost certainly are some combination of armor-piercing, explosive, special bullets. That adds to their destructive power, and so they need less momentum (and less recoil) for same damage potential.
2. There are tricks that firearms like AC-20s can use to reduce recoil. For example (IANAfirearms expert, like I said, so I am probably messing this up...I would appreciate corroboration from someone who knows this stuff...) the popular RL MP5 submachinegun forces some of the energy that would go into creating great recoil into doing other things. Like all automatic weapons, it uses the gasses to help clear the chamber and load a new bullet, but among other things, the gasses are forced to move rollers at great mechanical disadvantage (in other words, a lever designed to reduce their ability to do work, instead of increase it) before they can escape. This useless work reduces recoil. A gauss rifle has no gasses--a slug shoots out one end, and the mech MUST be pushed back...nothing can be done about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:32 pm 
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Loki
Loki

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 11444
Location: Minnesnowta
Both of your ideas are most likely correct.

I tend to go for the simplist idea though.

The heavy gauss fires a single massive shot that causes instant recoil.

The ACs however distribute their recoil over a much larger expanse of time, allowing the 'Mech to absorb it over the entire timeframe rather than the instant of fire for a heavy gauss.

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[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
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Who is John Galt?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:39 pm 
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General Loose Cannon
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:37 pm
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Location: Motown
Another thing that can be a factor in recoil effects is the expelled gasses from propellant it can be tapped off by a muzzle brake to counter act the recoil.the Galliot Muzzle brake mounted on a 32pdr. anti-tank gun was able to soak up enough of the recoil to allow that gun to be safely fired from the wooden DeHavilland Mosquito. and we are talking a high velocity weapon with a 95mm bore the 32pdr. refers to the weight of the projectile. Gauss rifles of course do not have those gases to tap

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:08 pm 
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MechMeister
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:00 pm
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Quote:
one quarter ton slug going at mach 1 has the same momentum as two eighth ton bullets going mach 1.
Or one eighth ton bullet going Mach 2. ;-)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:48 pm 
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Test Pilot
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Location: That flattop, up the well, overhead …
But couldn't recoil gear deal with a string of small impulses (Ultra/20) better then one big one (Heavy Gause)?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:39 am 
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Colonel
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:22 pm
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The ammo is stored in the rail along the top of the Gauss barrel.

I've always thought that a Gauss round contrary to BT Canon lore was quite small . Somewhere around 100 lb ball or dart

Its the velocity reached by moving down the magnetic barrel that gave it the high potential kinetic energy , not mass.

I look at it more as a car accelerating down the road, theres no negligible recoil. It starts at zero and then accelerates This is what a Gauss - Rail - Coil gun is supposed to do.

Recoil is the direct result/effect from using an explosive propellant to push a slug down the barrel.

Now watch all of the Canon Nazis jump on this post ..........


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:08 am 
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Loki
Loki

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:00 pm
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Location: Minnesnowta
actually, recoil is the result of moving ANYTHING. It is physics.

Any action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Just like any good deed has a bueracracy to oppose it. ;)

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[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:48 am 
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MechMeister
MechMeister

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:00 pm
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Location: RCW Enterprises, SC, USA
Quote:
I look at it more as a car accelerating down the road, theres no negligible recoil. It starts at zero and then accelerates This is what a Gauss - Rail - Coil gun is supposed to do.
If that were the case, they you'd be able to accelerate on ice as easily as on the road. Or, if you had your driving wheels sitting on a board, the board would not be thrown behind you by the wheels turning.

As Med said, it's physics. Physics rules!
Quote:
Now watch all of the Canon Nazis jump on this post ..........
Mor the Physics Nazis, rather than Canon Nazis. I'm not that familiar with Canon, but physics, I'm pretty good at. ;-)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:18 pm 
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Lieutenant, SG
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Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:29 am
Posts: 224
Quote:
WHOA. Looks much better when painted (or maybe I just lack the imagination to appreciate it in flatblack *shrugs*).
It really does look great, Je, you may not be an great artist with the paint, as you´ve claimed, but you do know how make the minis look great.
Quote:
I look at it more as a car accelerating down the road, theres no negligible recoil.
That´s the very reason that car moves, the wheel pushed the road backwards and the road pushs the wheel forwards.

The same goes for the GR round, the magnets push it forward, and the round push them back.
Quote:
If that were the case, they you'd be able to accelerate on ice as easily as on the road.
Good example, here there´s some "recoil-absorvers". The wheel can´t push the ground very well, due low attrition, thus it goes nowhere.

If something has been moved, it will exert some kind of "recoil" on its mover.

hope it helps.


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