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 Post subject: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am 
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Major
Major

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:00 pm
Posts: 361
Gigantor III (Dreadnought)

Overview:

The origin of the Super Heavy BattleMech dates back to the final years of the original Star League with Stefan Amaris and the original Matar or Behemoth design. Although the Behemoth design failed, the Word of Blake successfully deployed the Super Heavy Omega design to defend Terra in 3078. In 3090, the Lyran Commonwealth, under the direction of Archon Adam Steiner, started the design of Super Heavy ‘Mechs with the first one being manufactured in 3097 called the Gigantor. The second one, called the Gigantor II, was manufactured in 3099 and uses the same basic chassis of the original design. A third model, the Gigantor III, emerged soon after the second and many believe it will become the primary model for manufacture. Some have speculated that these designs were a perfect fit for his defensive strategies against Clans Jade Falcon and Wolf.

The Gigantor III is a 200 ton Battlemech that has a Dreadnought classification for being over 100 tons. Most assume since the ‘Mech is so gigantic or enormous that it was named Gigantor although some farfetched rumors say it was named after an ancient Terran cartoon involving a flying robot. Offensively, the design is equipped with 9 Large Pulse Lasers and the withering accuracy of the Pulse Lasers is further enhanced with a sophisticated Targeting Computer. Defensively, the ‘Mech carries a staggering 42.5 tons of Ferro-Lamellor Armor, Angel ECM Suite and 3 Laser Anti-missile systems to help sustain it on the battlefield. The Gigantor III is a blend of the first two models, adding some defensive measures while sacrificing very little in the way of firepower. Like other slow units, the Gigantor III is meant primarily for defensive roles and needs supporting units to maximize its effectiveness.

Game Notes:
Constructed using the Superheavy ‘Mech construction rules on pages 248-263 from the Battletech Field Manual 3145.
Model: Gigantor III
Configuration: Biped Battlemech
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Mixed (Base- Inner Sphere, Clan where noted)
Engine: 400 XL Engine, 26.5 tons (Clan)(1 critical in LT, RT)
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 0
Cockpit: 4 tons
Gyro: 8 tons
Internal Structure: Endo Steel, 20 tons (3 critical LA, 3 RA, 1 CT)
Heat Sinks: 37(74) (Clan)(3 Double Heat Sinks in LA, RA, 3 CT, 2 in LL,RL, 1 in LT, 7 in RT)
Armor: 42.5 tons of Ferro-Lamellor Armor (595) (Clan)(3 Critical in LT, RT)

Internal Structure Armor
H: 4 12
CT: 60 79 Front/ 40 Rear
LT/RT: 42 64 Front/ 20 Rear
LA/RA: 33 64
LL/RL: 42 84

Weapons and Equipment:
9 Large Pulse Lasers (Clan) (3 in LA, RA, 1 in LT, CT, RT)
1 Angel ECM Suite (Clan)(CT)
3 Laser Anti-Missile System(Clan)(H, LA, RA)
Targeting Computer (Clan)(LT)
Communications Equipment (2 tons)(CT)

Design has Shoulder and Upper Arm Actuators. Lower Arm and Hand Actuators have been removed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:58 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
how many Slots does a Dreadnought have in its Locations? are there 12 free Locations in the Center Torso with an xl engine and a gyroscope?

does it make sense to have a mech that produces 45 more heat on Alpha than it can compensate? in this case the mech has only one type of weapon, so bracket-fire is not the answer.
are there 11 free Slots for the TC in the left Torso ?

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typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Major
Major

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:00 pm
Posts: 361
cobayashimaru wrote:
how many Slots does a Dreadnought have in its Locations? are there 12 free Locations in the Center Torso with an xl engine and a gyroscope?

does it make sense to have a mech that produces 45 more heat on Alpha than it can compensate? in this case the mech has only one type of weapon, so bracket-fire is not the answer.
are there 11 free Slots for the TC in the left Torso ?


Super Heavy biped 'Mechs have the same number of slots as standard biped 'Mechs. The amount of space that components take up, however is half normal, rounded up. So a standard engine, for example, would take up 3 critical slots. A medium laser would take up 1 slot, a Clan Large Pulse Laser would take up 1 slot. Etc.

I'm not sure how you got 45 on the heat scale. The 9 Large Pulse Lasers produce 90 heat, the 3 Laser AMSs produce 15 heat (if they go off) for a total of 105 heat if it fired everything. The design has a heat dissipation of 74, so that would put it at 31 on the heat scale plus movement. The excess weaponry comes into play mainly after it starts taking critical hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
used the numbers for the ER Version...


spare weapons ? interesting, but i think that normally you would also loose heatsinks, so spare weapons are of limited use.

i would consider using ERLLs instead, first the pulse/TC Combo has been nerfed, second something that mooves 2/3 could use a bit of range to compensate. Any bit of range it can get.

in a prepared firing Position coolant-hoses could be attached to the mech, and it could be firing more weapons.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Lieutenant General
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Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:13 pm
Posts: 643
Location: Sheffield UK
If your gonna go slow 2/3 have at least a couple of the longer range weapons like ER Large Lasers otherwise you will be unable to return fire to a mech that can do at least 3/5 that has longer range weapons.

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hmmm hooom


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10690
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
A walking pillbox, over the top weapons setup, very much min/maxed, all Clan tech with a few exceptions since the rules have these as IS (ROTS) only and then the idea of pulse/targ which is not anything new or ground breaking, but for ATN that is not anything new. The mech suffers the same issues all slow moving mechs have and this one has it in spades. It wouldn't give much to the fight and will be come the biggest target. Now the defender or attacker has aerospace or artillery this mech is going to die very fast. Yes it has a lot of armor, but this is Battletech and the armor is only as good as the dice rolls, this is not a non-canon game like MegaMek, this mech is built for the board/miniature game thus suffers from the luck of the dice and the person running the mech, basically it is not going to offer much to a lance on lance fight beyond being the mech to bring down or destroy by the other side. Or it might not be since once it's lance mates die it's luck went south anyways.

Best use for this mech is shock factor and that is it. A mech with this kind of resources would not be made beyond a computer model, since not even the Republic would willingly waste the resources, again going for in game comment there. Out side of the game it's not anything that can't be put to use on smaller frame that can actually move and add to the support or attack of a forces, there is a reason we don't see many 80 to 100 ton mechs as the main stay of the majority of the IS/Clan military forces.

Add this mech to ATN other super assault style tanks and his preference for pulse/targ or Gauss and targ and you have another excellent example of power gaming and min/max at it's finest and worthy of use if you need to win at all cost and best the other side in sheer boredom of waiting for this to actually offer something to the fight on hand and even with support of other mechs it would not last long once any enemy hems it in with mines or better still stays at range and snipes or keeps flanking it and hitting and running back to cause it to have to move in order to be relative to the fight.

Better use for this mech would be carrying LRMs or Artillery or Arrow IV.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

http://karagin12.livejournal.com/

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
Code:
BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    David
Tech:          Mixed Tech  /  3060
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          100 tons
Chassis:       Composite (C)
Power Plant:   400 XL Fusion (C)
Walking Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Jump Jets:     4 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type:    Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  1 Laser AMS(C)
  4 ER Large Lasers(C)
  1 Angel ECM Suite(C)
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    David
Mass:          100 tons
Construction Options:  Fractional Accounting

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  152 pts Composite (C)         0      5,00
Engine:        400 XL Fusion                10     26,25
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:   6
   Jumping MP:   4
Heat Sinks:     27 Double (C) [54]          22     17,00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 2 LA, 3 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
XL Gyro:                                     6      2,00
Cockpit, Life Supt.:                         5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA             12       ,00
Armor Factor:  302 (C)                       7     15,73
 (Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 4 LA, 2 LT)

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9     
   Center Torso:             31         46     
   Center Torso (Rear):                 15     
   L/R Side Torso:           21      31/31     
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):            10/10     
   L/R Arm:                  17      34/34     
   L/R Leg:                  21      41/41     

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Laser AMS  (C)         RA      5           2      1,50
2 ER Large Lasers (C)    RA     24           2      8,00
2 ER Large Lasers (C)    LA     24           2      8,00
1 Angel ECM Suite  (C)   LT      0           2      1,50
1 Targeting Computer  (C)RT                  4      4,00
4 Standard Jump Jets:                        4      8,00
 (Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         53          78     99,98
Crits & Tons Left:                           0       ,02

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        31.356.534 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    3.078 (old BV = 2.993)
Cost per BV2:      10.187,31
Weapon Value:      5.549 / 5.549 (Ratio = 1,80 / 1,80)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 39;  MRDmg = 34;  LRDmg = 25
BattleForce2:      MP: 4J,  Armor/Structure: 8/6
                   Damage PB/M/L: 6/4/4,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MA;  Point Value: 31
                   Specials: ecm


i bet two of These would shred a gigantor, and would cost less

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10690
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
It would be a fight that's for sure, a short one.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

http://karagin12.livejournal.com/

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:45 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
i differ in it being a short fight,
the likelyhood to hit from outside a gigantors reach are not high.
That means that it would have to be slowly destroyed.
Unless the Attackers score a few lucky hits that is, 8 ERLLs mean 8 oportunitys per round.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:59 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
i wonder: if i wanted to overpower a 200 ton behemoth, wich would have more space inside, why not use a 125 ton ton behemoth with a 3-5 movement that could use the same rules?
if i can squeeze 4 ERLLs in a 100 ton mech i guess i could squeeze in 6 of them into one 125 ton mech.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10690
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
Which proves my point, the mech is easily countered by other designs and give how slow it is a quick battle will indeed happen since it will never be able to support its lance mates or they it.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

http://karagin12.livejournal.com/

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
seems to work:
Code:
BattleMech Technical Readout
                       
Type/Model:    Steroid David
Tech:          Clan / 3060
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 3, Custom design

Mass:          125 tons
Chassis:       Standard
Power Plant:   375 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  6 ER Large Lasers
  ECM System
  Laser AMS
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:   Steroid David
Mass:          125 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  190 pts standard             0     12,5
Engine:        375 XL Fusion                5     19,50
   Walking MP:   3
   Running MP:   5
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     40 Double [80]              22     30,00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 25 7LA 7RA 2LL 2RL 3LT 3 Rt Hd )
XLGyro:                                        3      2,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                3      4,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA             12       ,00
Armor Factor: 383 pts Standard               0     24,00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
6 ER Large Lasers    3LA,3RA     72           6     24,00
1 ECM Suite              LT      0           1      1,00
1 Laser AMS              LT      5           1      1,50
1 Targeting Computer     RT                  3      5,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         79        59      123,00
Crits & Tons Left:                         7         2,0

Calculated Factors:
Top secret

i left two tons unused for paint and camo(and calculation Errors)
Internal structure and armor are estimates...

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10690
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
The 125 tonner seems to be a better mech that can actually offer something to the fight, no faster then the other 100 ton mechs that come before, but still faster then 200 ton mech that would be out of the fight since it's to slow.

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

http://karagin12.livejournal.com/

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:00 am 
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Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3138
to reduce the aiming-difficulty and increase Effectivity i could replace one ERLL and 6 DHSs with 2 C3Masters and a ERML (mixed tech for IS use only)

second variant would have one C3Master and 2 ERMl with only 2 DHS less

Third Variant would have C3slave added only

to be combined with savannah-Master C3slave-version.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:12 am 
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Major
Major

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:00 pm
Posts: 361
zenorac wrote:
If your gonna go slow 2/3 have at least a couple of the longer range weapons like ER Large Lasers otherwise you will be unable to return fire to a mech that can do at least 3/5 that has longer range weapons.



The vast majority of my battles take place on a finite battlefield and have more than one unit on each side YMMV. I am not terribly concerned about not being able to engage every enemy unit on the battlefield every turn. A finite battlefield means, for example, that you can't constantly move backward and maintain some precise range against a particular target. Besides, trying to stay at a particular range and have shots can be difficult with terrain and can frequently be unwise with other enemy units. Since your opponent won't know what forces you are taking and will have equal knowledge of the battlefield, he won't be able to customize his force selection against you :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gigantor III
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Stratego
Stratego

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Posts: 10690
Location: Ft. Hood Texas
Finite Battlefield, is this do to your battle being on MegaMek vs the board/miniature game? And this idea you have of not knowing what your enemy is fielding tells me that you are playing against a computer then a human player, since, and unless blind play rules are in use which most won't use, most folks will share what they are fielding because they want you to know they beat you with a Stinger, Locust and Hollander and Jenner when you took your super assault and similar mechs for example.

So tell us ATN are you playing against people or via MegaMek?

_________________
Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

http://karagin12.livejournal.com/

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

Image


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