Welcome to the HeavyMetalPro Forums

It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:45 am

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19751
i have described an APC for one squad. its capacity is one squad or 1 ton
TOW has lists of equipment a soldier would carry. page 340 has a low budget trooper.
i thought the list was not complete, so i added a little, than i made a second list for what a squad leader would carry. finally i added 6 soldiers and one squad leader together.
the weight difference to 1 ton i suppose to be equipment for the squad: support weapons, rations, water etc.

soldier,basic, low tech, low budget
item cost weight
Knife/bajonet 8 0,300
shovel 2 1
Automatic Rifle 80 2.0
Ammo, 5 clips 10 -
Flak Vest 50 2.8
Flak Helmet 25 1.0
fatigues 30 0.5
leather boots 25 0.8
Pack 10 .100
basic field kit 10 5
sum 250 12.900kg

squad leader,basic, low tech, low budget
Knife/bajonet 8 0,300
shovel 2 1
Automatic Rifle 80 2.0
Ammo, 5 clips 10 -
Flak Vest 50 2.8
Flak Helmet 25 1.0
fatigues 30 0.5
leather boots 25 0.8
Pack 10 .100
basic field kit 10 5
compass 10 0.1
Field comm. 200 1
sum 460 14


squad, basic, low tech, low budget
cost weight
soldier 1-6 480
eq, soldier 1-6 1500 77.400
squad leader 80
eq, squad leader 460 14
sum 1960CB 651.4kg


so a basic rifle squad would weigh 651.4 kg and use equipment for 1960 CB
the remaining 348.6 kg are for support weapons, food, water, ammo etc.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:32 pm 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
page 339 of ToW has a High Budget trooper, i agree with the stuff he has, but he is lacking a shovel/entrenchment tool.

Bayonet 8 0.3
Pulse Laser Rifl e 2,000 5.0
Military Power Pack 120 4.0
Telescopic Scope 30 0.2
Laser Pistol 750 1.0
Shovel 2 1,0
Grenade, HE x 2 40 1.2
Grenade, AP x 2 32 1.2
Grenade, Smoke x 2 8 1.2
Ballistic Plate Vest 600 8.8
Load Bearing Vest 20 0.4
Combat Helmet 200 2.0
Night-vision Goggles 220 0.6
Plasteel Boots 175 3.0
Fatigues 30 0.5
Military Communicator 50 0.1
Basic Field Kit 10 5
Medical Kit 10 0.3
Medipatch x 2 20 0.0
Stimpatch x 8 16 0.1
Total 4,341 35.9

his squad leader would have a field Communicator instead of the Military Communicator, again i added a shovel

Bayonet 8 0.3
Pulse Laser Rifl e 2,000 5.0
Military Power Pack 120 4.0
Telescopic Scope 30 0.2
Laser Pistol 750 1.0
Shovel 2 1,0
Grenade, HE x 2 40 1.2
Grenade, AP x 2 32 1.2
Grenade, Smoke x 2 8 1.2
Ballistic Plate Vest 600 8.8
Load Bearing Vest 20 0.4
Combat Helmet 200 2.0
Night-vision Goggles 220 0.6
Plasteel Boots 175 3.0
Fatigues 30 0.5
Field Communicator 200 1
Basic Field Kit 10 5
Medical Kit 10 0.3
Medipatch x 2 20 0.0
Stimpatch x 8 16 0.1
Total 4491 36,8

the squadron sums up to:
weight of 6 soldiers: 480 kg
eq of 6 soldiers: 215,4
weigt of sqad leader 80
eq of SgL: 36,8
Squad weight: 812,2 Kilos
cost for 6 Soldiers: 26046
cost for Squad leader: 4491
SUM: 30537

the Squad would likely have a Tent for 7 persons, wich costs 28 and weighs 14 Kilos, this would be transported on the squad Transport vehicle.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:01 pm 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
When trying to create a world in the periphery i stumbled over an interesting problem: to be able to import weapons (or any other item) you not only need money, but convertible currency.
in other words: even a prospering economy that gives the government the equivalent of billions of C-bills in taxes to spend cannot import goods, simply because the currency is not convertible. to really be able to import stuff the planet has to sell stuff for C-bills, or at least for a currency for wich a market exists.

for a planet in the deep periphery distance does not only make goods that are imported from the core of the galaxy expensive, but it also makes exported goods too expensive to compete. when the transport-cost is becomeing prohibitive to exports the worlds in the periphery are litterally haveing no choice but to produce everything themselves.

I imagine a world that is at techlevel A with some technologys of level B being available.
the world is prosperous, but too far in the periphery to be able to import much.
to create an army as well as to lower unemployment an industrial base has to be created.
the army is to be 10000 companys strong with 4 platoons of 4 squads each, all armed with bolt action rifles for a start. heavier weapons are to be produced later to upgrade the army

the soldiers are to be looking like this:


soldier,basic, very low tech, very low budget
item cost weight
Knife/bajonet 8 0,300
shovel 2 1
Bolt action Rifle 60 3,0
Ammo, 15 clips 15 0,9
fatigues 30 0.5
leather boots 25 0.8
Pack 10 .100
basic field kit 10 5
sum 160 11,6

squad leader
Knife/bajonet 8 0,300
shovel 2 1
Bolt action Rifle 60 3,0
Ammo, 15 clips 15 0,9
fatigues 30 0.5
leather boots 25 0.8
Pack 10 .100
basic field kit 10 5
compass 10 0.1
walkie-talkie. 200 1
sum 370 12,7

to do this at least 1 120 000 sets of equipment have to be created, plus the same number for reserves plus an estimated 10% per year for replacements.
the government decides to create a number of factorys as described in the industrial tycoons handbook. as the number pieces of equipment is rather large the industry is designed to create 120000 sets per year, in one shift operation. until the required amount is reached, and during wartimes, the factorys are to operate in 3 shifts

about half of the production is to be used for the creation of units, until the target number is reached, the rest is to go into reserves.

1. Rifle factory
factory output : 120000 rifles
output value: 7200000 c-bills
number of Blocks: 1/5 (for a possible output of 8000000 c-bills of rifles per year or 133 333 rifles in one shift operation)
tech rating: A for product A for factory
Tier III product
the factory weighs 320 tons and employs 88 workers per shift (page 7 ITHB)
construction cost for the factory: 250 000 000 c-bils times 1/5 for size times 1,75 for Tier III times 0,25 for "other item" times 1.4 for a deep periphery world = 30.625.000 C-bills(page 13 ITHB)

as the rifle factory is less than one block in size the land requirement is 1 Hex, it is located in a town and the land costs 25000 (page 33 ITHB) it requires 2 hours of maintenance per week if run in single shifts, 4.4 in double and 7 in 3 shift operation. (page 24 ITHB)

for the operation 1 line engineer and 6 machinists are hired, as well as 10 administrators (264 laborers in 3 shifts plus 1 engineer and 6machinists/30 page 18 ITHB) as well as one department head
the personel will cost 264*3840+6*7680+18000+10*7680+18000=1156440 per year (page 18 ITHB)(3 shifts)

2. Ammo factory
one billion shots of rifle-ammo are to be stockpiled
to reach this amount an annual output of 100 000 000 million shots in two shift operation is deemed apropriate(no 3-shifts for safety concerns)
factory output: 50000000/year(one shift)
value of one shift output: 10 000 000
number of blocks: 1/4
tech rating: A for product A for factory
Tier II product
The factory weighs 400 tons and employs 110 laborers per shift
construction cost for the factory: 250000000 *0,25 for size *1,25 for Tier II*0,25 for "other item"*1,4 for deep periphery =27 343 750
the land requirement is one hex, wich again costs 25000,
the maintenance requirements equal that of the rifle factory.
1 line engineer and 6 machinists maintain the factory , 8 administrators and one department head administrate it.
the personal cost is 220*3840+6*7680+18000+8*7680+18000= 988320/year(2 shifts)

3. the remaining items of the basic EQ are produced in one factory, wich is to produce at least 120000 sets per year in one shift operation
one set costs 85 c-bills
output value: 10 200 000 c-bills/year
the block size is 10,2/40
tech rating: a for product, A for block
as the sets are made up from various parts they are tier III
the factory weighs 408 tons and employs 113 laborers per shift
construction cost is 250000000/40*10,2(size)*1,75(tierIII)*0,25(other item)*1,4(deep periphery)=39046875
1 line enginer and 6 mashinists maintain the factory 12 administrators and one department head administrate it
the personal cost is 339*3840+6*7680+18000+12*7680+18000=1476000/year( 3 shifts)

compasses and walkie-talkies can be bought from existing local factorys. as produced numbers do not reach the amount needed only one set per company can be issued, later one set per platoon.


the construction of the factories costs: 97 090 625 including the cost for buying the land

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:22 pm 
Offline
Corporal
Corporal

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:40 am
Posts: 37
This is fascinating and I love it. I look forward to further developments.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:16 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
the next problems the ministery of defenc is facing are 1. how to enable the troopers to fight armor/mechs 2. mobility 3. structure
the ability to fight developed oponents is self explanatory.
mobility is important to be able to concentrate a force where it is needed.
structure is needed for effective control and leading the army.

the simplest way to enable the single trooper to damage mechs/armor is IMHO a blooper aka M79 40mm grenadelauncher, or similar. it should do one Point of damage to mechs/ armor.
as i intend the weapons to be issued to every single man(as stocks allow... ) i would choose something looking like a HK69 grenade-pistol, the weight should be about 2.5 Kgs loaded and every man should also carry about 5 rounds HE.

to give as many units as possible some sort of mobility i would start with a limited number of generic Jeeps. there is no way this small vehicles could be produced for all Units(that would require about 160000 for squads only). in the beginning i would give them to the most elite units, later, when the elite units get better vehicles, i would give this vees to commanders.

as a CV the simplest squad Transport would look like this:

Code:
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Untitled
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3060
Config:        Wheeled Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          2,5 tons
Power Plant:   10 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed:  108,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 162,0 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      None
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Untitled
Mass:          2,5 tons
Construction Options:  Fractional Accounting

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  4 pts Standard                0       ,25
Engine:        10 I.C.E.                     0      1,00
    Cruise MP:  10
     Flank MP:  15
Heat Sinks:      0 Single                    0       ,00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0       ,13
Crew: 1 Members                              0       ,00
Armor Factor:    0 pts Standard              0       ,00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     1          0
   Left / Right Sides:        1        0/0
   Rear:                      1          0

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Trailer Hitch          Rear                1       ,00
Infantry Bay             Body                1      1,00
Pintle mount with MG Body                1       ,12
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          3      2,50
Items & Tons Left:                           2       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        4.269 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    10 (old BV = 2)
Cost per BV:       426,94
Weapon Value:      0 / 0 (Ratio = ,00 / ,00)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 0;  MRDmg = 0;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 10W,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GL;  Point Value: 0
                   Specials: tran1


i could make them faster as the engine does not get heavier till 25 Points are reached, but that would be unrealistic.
they would come with something like this:
Code:
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Untitled
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3060
Config:        Wheeled Trailer
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          1,12 tons
Power Plant:   None
Cruise Speed:  None. Trailer pulled by Tractor.
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      None
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Untitled
Mass:          1,12 tons
Construction Options:  Fractional Accounting

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  4 pts Standard                0       ,12
Engine:        None                          0       ,00
    Cruise MP: None. BV based on 10 MP
Heat Sinks:      0 Single                    0       ,00
Crew: 1 Members                              0       ,00
Armor Factor:    0 pts Standard              0       ,00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     1          0
   Left / Right Sides:        1        0/0
   Rear:                      1          0

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Trailer Hitch          Front               1       ,00
Cargo Bay Capacity       Body                1      1,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          2      1,12
Items & Tons Left:                           3       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1.126 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    8 (old BV = 2)
Cost per BV:       140,78
Weapon Value:      0 / 0 (Ratio = ,00 / ,00)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 0;  MRDmg = 0;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 10W,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GL;  Point Value: 0
                   Specials: tran1



the most interesting question IMHO is Organisation, i think the 10000 companys mentioned above would be formed into 1000 regiments with 10 companys in 3 battallions 4-3-3 each.
the regiments would be more elite the lower the number is.
the 9 one-digit regiments would be the Guards with the first Regiment being the presidential Regiment of guards, together they would be the guard-division.
the 90 two-digit regiments would be considered elite, they would form 10 elite-divisions.
the remaining regiments are also organised in divisions of 9 regiments, the lowest numbers are considered the source of reserves for the elite/guard divisions, the middle would be the main body of the army while the highest numbers would be considered garrison units, the Limits between this Groups would shift with neccessity.

the regiments would have the right to choose a name of Tradition,usually referring to Military units of the past. to avoid double names the lowest regiments choose first. the higher numbered regiments often choose no such traditional names. usually the lowest numbers would choose the most prestigious names.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:48 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
i have found out i could build a 2000 kg SV wheeled squad Transport, going 6/9 with 7200 km of range, this would replace the 2.5 ton CV for many Units.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:04 am 
Offline
Supreme Mugwump
Supreme Mugwump

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 3176
the most interesting question with a simple(low tech) army that is set against high tech oponents is how they would fight.

to answer that question we must first ask what the nature of the oponent would be, and what would be the threats they pose.

the most dreaded things are:

1. orbital bombardment
2. Aerial bombardment
3. battlemechs
4. armor
5. everything else.

the conclusion is that a defender has to first protect himself from threats from overhead.
this means that bunkers have to be built that are protected against orbital bombardment, either by being deep enough under the surface, or by haveing a thick enough ceiling of concrete.
another Option would be Camouflage, as it is hardly feasible to bomb the entire planet.

in order to be able to chase the invaders offplanet it is neccessary to ambush the landed forces unexpectedly, this means that the abovementioned bunkers have to have well camouflaged Exits everywhere, and they must be connected in order to move troops where they are needed.

i think the defences of svitzerland are a good example of an effective bunker System, for ist effectiveness Technology seems to be important, but at a second thought it is much more important to plan effective positions of the hidden guns, and hide them well.

_________________
typos and spelling-mistakes are property of the finder. english is not my mother-tongue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:20 pm 
Offline
Commanding General
Commanding General

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:28 pm
Posts: 1826
The question with hidden bunkers is what are they there for? Are the forces there to keep the enemy tied up over a longer term, or are they there to hide and rise up after the fact?

Then you have to deal with how do you build a wide enough network of hidden bunkers, even safe houses to fight back against the invaders that nobody knows about?


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
American English Language Pack © MaĆ«l Soucaze